Don't let the haters bring you down JWB, I think you're a good poster.

I agree but the members here will attack you for this because they don't see themselves or how they behave outside of their "group or clique"

People should not have to go to a forum and constantly be bullied and harassed simply because their opinions are not based on the general consensus of the forum which I have observed over the years on this site. When someone does not hold an opinion that is in line with the "group think" mentality of the clique on this site, the clique will gang up and cruelly attack them and the moderators will sit back....and do nothing. Which is sad because I think people enjoy watching others being cruel and nasty to other members here.

You can't just blame members for why a forum is not operating the way it should be and to be frank thats a easy cop out for someone who doesn't want to take responsibility for a problem that reflects an absence in leadership. That is not a good leader.

You should be able to maturely admit when you have made an error or could improve on an area when (as a leader) you have been put on notice that something is not right with the way a group is being monitored. Thats what makes a good leader, not someone who blames the "group" and expects changes to be fixed on their own.

Thats not how things change. You have to work at it and put effort in it and especially if you are in a leadership role. If you have this "I don't give a f*** attitude" then that is what the forum will reflect.

If members are posting inappropriate things its not fair to only blame members for that when there are moderators here that can easily put that in check. The moderators here do not do that and are not good leaders in operating this forum which is why this forum is the way it is.

Back from the dead!!!!!!!!!!

Ok so what should I have done when you basically labelled me a racist based on your uninformed opinion of what music I listened to when I have never once insulted you?

Oh-kaaayy.. so what you're saying is that people should not have to be responsible for their actions or worry about it as long as there is someone to clean up after them? You think Urban, Goofle et al are the parents of this forum? They don't get paid, you know, and it's not up to them to channel people's behaviour. Nor is it their job to keep deleting posts that are inappropriate while the people making them continue to post the same thing. That doesn't sort anything. It's quite clear when something is over the top and yet people continue to do the same thing, don't seem to care about throwing out insults and accusations, and you think the mods should wade in and sort this out, and if not then they're not doing their job?

Does nobody here have a sense of decorum or even restraint? Has there never been a time when someone thought maybe I won't say that? Does everything have to go from certain people's brains directly to their fingers? And I still don't get this "clique" thing. I may have friends here but they've argued with and disagreed with and even at times fought with me over issues they didn't agree with, or stands I took which nobody else did (see the "French massacre" thread), therefore I don't feel I'm in any clique and I have never felt pressured by any group. Perhaps that's just another excuse? Oh I can't control my behaviour on the internet: why doesn't someone monitor me?
Are you all ****ing thirteen years of age???

This thread reminds me why I quit management. Thankless job.

Fuck authority!

I felt insulted when I politely came to you expressing my concerns about how I was being treated and about the forum and you ignored me and did nothing. You showed with your actions that you didn't give a damn.

Boo don't sit here and lie on me. I have never called you a racist, so please don't even try it. I notice a lot of members here like to lie on me and say I said certain things when I did not. It is immature and its not right.

What I said was, you could benefit from listening to other musical genres besides rock. Rock personally is not a genre I know a lot about or listen to a lot which is why I often posed questions here in order to gain more information and plugged in order to broaden my music library because I am open to new music.

I am not sure how that implies you are a racist but that is neither here nor there. You are still deflecting from the truth of the matter and the truth of the matter is...you have failed this forum and this forum reflects that.


But I don't have to prove this to you anymore because you have been put on notice.

So obviously I am not the only one that feels this way.

It would behoove you to maturely accept your role in why this forum is the way it is and simply work on improving it.

Yes, some of the members here are over the top but YOU can change this forum around too, YOU play an essential role too. Its immature to blame all the members and not take any responsibility especially when you are the veteran head moderator of this forum.

Are you kiddin me?

You called me racist when I told you that you were stupid for thinking that boycotting Black Friday in support of the Ferguson incident has any meaningful impact. You also generalized the entire forum as being racist and annoyed a lot of people.

http://www.musicbanter.com/general-m...ml#post1512699

Welcome back, Soulflower! It's kinda weird that you re-emerged right after I posted that visitor message.

Anyway, I hope things don't get too heated up between you and everyone. You're all really interesting people, and it's a shame when arguments drive good people apart.

Why are these type of threads always the most popular? I'm surprised people are still talking about this stuff. Just get over it.

You know it's funny but I always felt I was very fair to you. When people were calling you a troll or would cross the line with you they were always asked to stop whether it be publicly or privately and told if they had a problem with you personally not to enter debate with you. I overlooked some of your more arrogant traits because I felt you were an asset to the music forums and I don't have a problem with people with strong opinions posting in them. The problem seems to be when you were confronted with people with equally strong opinions you don't seem to be able to take it.
I was always civil to you, if I ever dismissed anything you said I always gave reasons as to why I disagreed with you. I don't really see what else I can do. If you have a problem with the way I debate things then don't do it and find someone else.

And this whole thing isn't about finger pointing it's about people looking at themselves and trying to improve and you can't tell me you're entirely blameless either.

and equally if you have nothing to add then don't post.

I was speaking more ironically. A thread made to help improve the forum yet everyone is pointing fingers. Just saying what im seeing.

What's sad is you have not once maturely expressed your shortcomings as a moderator and how you are going to improve the forum as a moderator.

So far you have made it very clear that you are above criticism and your arrogance has blinded you of your failure to successful moderate this forum.

Again, I don't have to prove anything to you anymore because obviously the OWNER of this forum feels the same way about this forum as I do.

In other words, you have been put on notice and you know you have otherwise you would not have made this thread.

I am just trying to get you to understand that its not JUST the members and you play an essential role too as far as why this forum is the way it is. It would be immature to blame every one else and not take no type of responsibility yourself.

Never thought being offended by a gay slur would cause such a tidal wave of drama. In my opinion, if The Lounge is being considered too much by the mods, then you really shouldn't have a Lounge. I understand, keep a filter on things, watch what you say and all that. You really think that's going to work though? The whole point of this community is to meet people and discuss topics. You could have kept it strictly music related, but you didn't. The Lounge is there and things are said. Things are said in response. We're only human. Most of us are friends. Friends bicker and make fun of each other. I don't think of it as a blemish on this website or a problem. I've been on forums where it was a problem. This place is Disney Channel compared to that. If the people who own this site can't handle what's going on in The Lounge, which I just see as the growth of a community of friends, then this should strictly be a music forum. It won't be as much fun though, I'll tell you that much.

For what it's worth, I'm fine with the closing of the thread. It was getting intense and needed a cool down. My apologies for being the match that lit the whole thing. I was just responding to something that I'm passionate about, just like I would if somebody said that Miles Davis was a sh*tty trumpet player. It was just more serious than that.

^i probably wouldn't be around much if the lounge didn't exist. It'd be way too boring for my liking.

Did you even read the first post of this thread?

The whole point if this is asking EVERYBODY to try and show a bit of restraint so we don't have to start throwing down draconian laws down that nobody wants and banning people. This isn't moderators vs members, this is members full stop as in everybody, me, you, that guy who posts all those K pop videos.... everybody.

Again I ask you, what would you like me to do? anybody who went over the line with you was asked not to do it and action was taken, I was always civil to you. I'm not saying I'm perfect here but I'm beginning to think putting a saint in charge of the forum still wouldn't satisfy you.

And we have not been 'Put on notice' by the owners. I asked the question if things were becoming too much in the Lounge and was told it might be a good time to tighten things up a bit given that we're allowed to be a bit looser than their other forums. It's worked that way for 10 years, there's no harm in ensuring people are reminded about the situation.

Nobody is asking anybody to be whiter than white here, just making an effort to calm things down. As in not sending so many threads off topic with stuff that could just as easily be said in the shoutbox, or being quick to label people pointlessly.

How could you possibly know this when the mods never posted the conversation?

Mildly off-topic: has anybody considered using any of the numerous ways to make their own forum to replace this place so that we can, you know, have the owners actually be an active part of the community?

That'd be nice except you would lose 10+ years of music info.

You really think that every single active member here is going to be okay with losing their precious post count?

At least Yac does things from time to time when he can.
The guy who owned the place before them disappeared for about 3 years before he finally sold the place.

He got around $2000 for it and went on a trip to Hawaii.

And speaking of Yac I'm sure he won't mind me posting exactly what was said that led to this thread being created.

And the work people put into their journals. And everything else.

And I'd have to change bookmarks. **** that headache.

Yeah I can see how losing all the hard work people have put into the journals would be depressing.

Your right, this isn't a members versus moderator debate nor did I imply it so don't make it into one. This is about YOU. This is me simply responding to a post in which you pointed the finger at all the members and did not reflect on any of your own short comings as a moderator. You made it appear as if you were put on notice in your first post, no where do you imply you "personally inquired" about anything and if that is the case you should have said that instead of perpetuating the opposite.

If that is the case, why did you delete the SYG thread? Your "new story" reeks of bs to be honest.

If this is not what you intended than you should have clarified that because your first post comes off arrogant. Every time I or anyone disagrees with you you throw a tantrum like its against the law to disagree with you. Like your status on this forum anoints you as the most high and nobody can disagree with anything you say.


Again, I ask what can YOU do to improve this forum and be a better moderator. I notice you are still deflecting that question and trying to fit "everybody" in the question. This is not everybody. This is about YOU.

Why is it so hard for you to answer this question?

I'm not deflecting anything I want to know what it is I seem to be doing thats so wrong in your eyes.

All I can see is you interpret my posts a certain way which from what I can see is more on you than me. You seem to think I disregard your posts. If that were true I wouldn't respond to them in the first place.

Also, the SYG thread isn't deleted. It's in the Editors Pick forum.

If you want the full story I'll give it to you.

In the past month or so I have been receiving complaints from members that they felt that something needed to be done about what was being posted in the Lounge.
After the debacle that happened in the SYG thread where there were 20 pages of bickering I closed it down for a couple of days. I re-opned it and people just carried on with the bickering like nothing had happened.

I asked a question in the mod forum based on these factors if it was time to do something about this where Yac posted his reply to me which I posted earlier that it was maybe time something was done about it, then I closed the SYG thread and started this thread.

Then a few hours later Vanilla re-opned that thread under approved post conditions and asked if anyone minded it being re-opned. We then had a vote in the mod forum which is still ongoing about getting rid of that thread for good, Currently it's at 3 to 1 votes to close it for good.

That's exactly what happened, this is not me issuing a personal vendetta or me wanting to get my own way. This is about me acting as a moderator and trying to do something about things when I'm asked to. Something I believe you want me to do. You can't complain that I don't act and then when I do act on an issue complain when I do. That's just being contrary for the sake of it.

Pretty sure she just wants you to say you have been involved in some of the bullsh*t you've now been asked to mod more closely. I don't disagree with that but you are hardly one of the primary offenders.

Honestly, with how agitated Soulflower is getting, I haven't seen Urban step out of line in any of his responses. He's been thorough and respectful. That says more than anything if you want to think about it that way.

Meow off.

I'm just being nice. This is why I can't take you out anywhere.

Fair enough.

But why did you post what you did in the first post?

It had to take me calling you out for you to clarify this.

This post right here should have been your first post.


I feel like you disregard my post because when I ask a question you do disregard them.

I sat here and have asked you at least 4 times now to discuss how you can improve this forum as a moderator but you oddly have not answered BUT you want me to answer your question though. (this is an example of you disregarding my posts and my feelings)

Like I have said many times in the past, I don't have a problem with you but for some reason you disregard my posts like they are nothing as well my opinions. I am not sure why that is when I take the time to answer your questions and really read your post and understand your perspectives ( as I would want anyone to do my own). I don't get that same respect from you. All I get is arrogance, superiority and immaturity.



I will not be patronized or dictated. My questions and opinions need to be considered as well not just YOURS.


It is a pretty simple question that you are dragging and making into a big deal by not answering it.

I wonder if it is because you are afraid to answer because it puts your flaws on display for all to see?

I can think of a few ways Urban can improve this forum as a moderator:

• He can clean up spam so users don't have to dig through a bunch of it to get to the things they want.
• He can enforce the rules to help make sure the site isn't shut down due to complaints from the owners or google.
• He can approve avatars and new posts for people to make their experience here better.
• He can take care of disruptive posters so that no one else has to.

Interestingly, these are all things I already see him doing.

So what are you doing to improve the forum?

I wasn't ignoring your question I was trying to get you to clarify what it was you thought I was doing wrong so I could give you a proper answer. How can I improve if you don't tell me my faults?

If you feel my first post was too strongly worded then good, that was what I was aiming for. I've been at this place a long time. I was here when the current owners took over and I am well aware of what the situation is in regards to our position with all the companies other forums maybe more so than some of the other mods who weren't here at the time. I was one of the ones who tried to convince them to let this place be somewhere where people could be free to express themselves and install things like the journals and encourage people to write things along with the other mods at the time like right-track, ethan, jackhammer, big 3 and others rather than be just another corporate website. That's the reason why I talk about forum standards and act by closing a thread sometimes when maybe some other mods will let things go. I know the hard work me and those people and others who came along later like Jansz, Ped & Tore put into this place and I don't want that hard work to go to waste

I didn't write that first post out of arrogance and I wasn't deceiving anybody. I wrote it out of knowing the situation and the history of this place, people saying to me 'please do something about this' and knowing what would happen if this place got any worse.

As for my faults, well I know I can be a bit short sometimes but then a lot of that is born out of frustration when people are asked to do something politely and just ignore it, only for them to complain when something more harsh is done. And maybe I could hold my tongue when I find someone being annoying.

I don't see anything wrong with how I debate with you or anyone else, it's funny but I could just as easily say the same things of you as you do of me. I'm stubborn, you're stubborn, But I've never made any secret of it that I like it that you're here posting. Your leaving genuinely surprised me because I was enjoying our debate and thought you were too.

I've never ever turned away any question PMed to me even if Trollheart paints me as some Ogre you and anybody else is welcome to PM me at any time if they ever want anything and I wish more people would, I would much rather be solving peoples problems like that than having to make threads like this.

Which is kind of ironic when you think about it.

Poncy Hairdresser.You sound like a whiny geezer right now.Dude you yourself addmitted it was classless and a mite degrading to your child.I dont see the problem with me reiterating comnon knowledge. I think you know me well enough to know if I want to jump your **** I will.You sound like a chronic victim.

I try to improve my community Janszy.:( This my home man and some of you are my family. I dont **** where I eat.