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View Poll Results: Which statements do you agree the most with? (public poll)
1A. The rules should be applied equally to all members (ex. rules apply equally to mods and users) 15 60.00%
1B. The rules should NOT be applied equally to all members (ex. mods more lenient with regualrs) 8 32.00%
2A. Rules should apply equally to all forums 7 28.00%
2B. Rules should NOT apply equally to all forums (ex. "Safe Zones" less strict) 18 72.00%
3A. Outside safe zones, mod policy should allow for short, nonsense posts 10 40.00%
3B. Outside safe zones, mod policy should discourage short, nonsense posts 13 52.00%
3C. Outside safe zones, mod policy should prohibit short, nonsense posts 2 8.00%
4A. General mod policy should be to react to every instance where a rule is broken 10 40.00%
4B. General mod policy should allow for mods NOT to react to an instance where a rule is broken 15 60.00%
5A. Details of rule enforcement is ultimately between a mod and a user 7 28.00%
5B. Details of rule enforcement can ulimately be subject to other mods scrutiny 4 16.00%
5C. Details of rule enforcement can be subject to public scrutiny 16 64.00%
6A. For punishment, there should be a general policy to use temporary infractions 5 20.00%
6B. For punishment, there should be a general policy to use warnings, infractions / bans 16 64.00%
6C. There should be no general policy for how punishment is carried out 7 28.00%
7A. For rule enforcement, moderators should use a joint, anonymous account 4 16.00%
7B. For rule enforcement, moderators should use their personal accounts 21 84.00%
8A. A new moderation policy should have a trial run first (ex. 1 - 2 months) 18 72.00%
8B. A new moderation policy should NOT have a trial run first (implemented immediately) 5 20.00%
9A. The mod team should be bolstered with additional mods. 13 52.00%
9B. The mod team should NOT be bolstered with additional mods. 6 24.00%
9C. The current mod team should be retained. 17 68.00%
9D. Some or all of the current moderators should be replaced. 6 24.00%
10. Some of my concerns are not listed in the individual items, but I will voice them in a reply. 5 20.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-09-2015, 01:34 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tore View Post
No. There will always be unusual circumstances that will call for judgment regarding context so it's not a black/white issue of context or not.
If you recognize that context and judgement will always play a role, then it seems like your proposals don't have much of a purpose.

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Originally Posted by tore View Post
The question is what it is. The example is that; an example.
A poorly chosen and loaded example then.
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Old 06-09-2015, 01:54 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lisnaholic View Post
Are we reading this poll different ways, Roxy and Trollheart? To me, it's just trying to give everyone a chance to show what they'd like. If you don't want any changes you can skim through the options and just pick out the ones that'll leave things as they are.
As I understood it, tore made his first poll which was accused of being loaded and very biased, so he, Freebase and Veganelica got together to write a more inclusive and fair one. If this is not that, then what is it? Has tore given up on his "New dawn for Music Banter" idea? And if so, is this just a suggestion box idea? I don't understand: to me, this was the first poll reworded and improved, basically tore's proposal 2.0? Am I wrong?
Quote:

( Never heard about that Lisbon Treaty referéndum, which sounds both sad and bizarre, but I don't think that's what's going on here. I recommend you put in your "No Change" votes so that the poll results reflect what people actually want.)
It was when we had to vote for a treaty that, essentially, took all our govt's autonomy away and allowed all major decisions for any European Union state to be taken by basically the powers in Europe, mostly Germany. After almost 100 years of freedom and independence, we signed it all away. But the first referendum was defeated by a big margin. Instructed by their European overlords that this would not do (though we were feted in many parts of Europe for having the guts to say NO!) they ran it again a few years later, loaded it with scaremongering and doomsday scenarios, and basically phrased it as much as "Do you want Ireland to take her place in the European community or would you rather she remained isolated?" Who's gonna vote no to that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon View Post
The issue is that that wasn't really the question in the first place so for someone with my position that issue, which I've made clear from very early on, it's being presented with a proposal they disagree with versus a strawman of their actual position. Kind of problematic.
Yeah, I really don't understand where this has gone/is going now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls View Post
My biggest complaint that pushes me to Tore's side is that serious discussion gets derailed too often by drama/"having fun". There is a time and a place for both, and I think bolstering and setting up some new forum standards will help alleviate that.
Drama does not equal fun nor the other way around. People know when to stop and you can't have everything serious all the time. Many of my threads have been derailed, it's just how it is. Unless the topic is ultra-serious, in which case off-topic posts should definitely be discouraged. We're heading back to Military School again, are we?
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Originally Posted by Goofle View Post
I'm not sure if this has been stated already, but I'd like to highlight the importance of reporting posts you find offensive. I think I can speak for the whole mod team by saying we don't read every single post or conversation that goes on.
I woudl think the amount of posts considered offensive would be very small. Members (not spammers) are seldom actually offensive in my experience.
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Originally Posted by The Batlord View Post
Maybe not the poll itself, or at least certain options, but considering the impetus of this whole story arc in the first place, I definitely think that that motivation is what's behind the general idea of the poll.
Batty plans for the movie rights!
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Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls View Post
I voted for this but I agree with Jans' take on emoticon/short response usage. I don't have a problem with someone acknowledging someone else's post with a simple "lol" or "good luck" or ROFL emoticon. I don't think those are nonsense.

However, I don't want to see a bunch of memes/gifs/emoticons, being responded to with more memes/gifs/emoticons.
That happened in someone's journal, basically a battle of the GIFs. I asked it be stopped, and it was. It's not rocket science. If you stay silent then you're only contributing to the problem. Say your piece and be heard, that's how adults do it. Can't see a problem with that.
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Old 06-09-2015, 01:57 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Oh, may I also ask is tore promoting drug use among the mods as policy?

7A. For rule enforcement, moderators should use a joint
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Old 06-09-2015, 02:00 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ki View Post
But what about those that don't? Would they just have to deal with it? If any of this ends up approved, my activity here will drop immensely.
I think your activity here should drop if it gets out of hand. I don't think it'll get out of hand. Wait until you're actually uncomfortable with the rules before you leave. If these new rules get implemented, we might not even see a difference in things. Of course, new mods could be implemented and we could all be posting in a Nazi fascist message board come summer. I'll just wait to find out. I'll still be posting d*ck jokes where I can in the meantime.

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Originally Posted by Plankton View Post
Sure we can, and then we can make a poll to try and change it.

I wasn't going to reply to this thread, and I'm not sure if you'd want my opinion on things around here, but here it is anyway, and I mean no offense whatsoever:

I've only observed a few instances of people demanding change to the way things are run here, and for the most part the changes are brought up from someone who's presence here is a bit more stoic, which is uncommon for the majority of the other members, which are a bit more laid back. This, to me, seems like a control issue. Someone that won't allow a bit of youthful playfulness into a discussion, or needs their thoughts and opinions on what they believe to be taken very seriously by a group of strangers just seems a bit off. Sure, there are times when things get sketchy here, and there will always be trolls, and sometimes people feel the need for posting only one word, or a small phrase, and if you ask me, it's been handled with as much tact and grace as one could possibly expect from the few who are in the position to deal with it. I really only see this poll as an attempt at controlling something which is by nature, a chaotic entity, and is already being handled as such in a manner that not only nurtures fun and friendly discussion, but also addresses the intellectual side of things as well.

That's all I've got.
Quite possibly the best opinion I've seen on the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon View Post
If you recognize that context and judgement will always play a role, then it seems like your proposals don't have much of a purpose.
I too think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. It takes the term "making a mountain out of a molehill" to a realistic degree. I'm all for discussion on these matters but Tore seems hellbent on creating some sort of constitution to not only his liking, but the liking of 6-7 members who don't feel comfortable around here anymore, compared to the 50 or so that love our atmosphere.

The last poll showed that the majority, by a large difference, don't want anything to change. I keep seeing "this is just for opinion" being thrown around. I don't think that's true. I feel like this is continuing because the majority of us don't want to get on board with this.

I see it like this.

Tore: You want this donut?
Vast Majority: No.

T: Don't worry. I'm just asking who wants the donut and who doesn't. It's just for opinion.
VM: Okay. We don't want the donut dude.

T: Have you seen the donut? It's got a lot of cool things that will make you REALLY like it. Here I'll show you...
V: We don't want the donut. We like what we are eating already.

T: I know. You're entitled to your opinion. If you really don't want the donut, you don't have to have it. It has sprinkles and powered sugar though. I feel it's the best option for your breakfast.
VM: WE DON'T LIKE DONUTS.

T: Right, but you see, some people over there like and are eating donuts. So, let's talk about the donut some more.
VM: FFFFFFFFFRRRRUMMSAARRRRRGGHGHAHGARRRRRRA
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:07 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon View Post
If you recognize that context and judgement will always play a role, then it seems like your proposals don't have much of a purpose.
We've discussed this before, but perhaps you forget.

I believe what I wrote last time, or even the last two times, is that I don't think it should be all judgment and context. When a moderater is confronted with a user who has broken some rule in some common way, there should be some policy, guideline or precedent as to what the appropriate punishment should be. This makes the job easier. Dealing with common rule breaking shouldn't feel like solving some big dilemma. The unusual situations are what should call for that and this moderator will experience those too.

When there's no policy or guideline telling a mod how to deal with a certain situation, it makes it easier to not deal with it.
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:09 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Exo_ View Post
I think your activity here should drop if it gets out of hand. I don't think it'll get out of hand. Wait until you're actually uncomfortable with the rules before you leave. If these new rules get implemented, we might not even see a difference in things. Of course, new mods could be implemented and we could all be posting in a Nazi fascist message board come summer. I'll just wait to find out. I'll still be posting d*ck jokes where I can in the meantime.
You had better!



Quote:
Quite possibly the best opinion I've seen on the matter.
Sorry for robbing your line, but this I believe now applies to you. Great description of what appears to be going on.
Quote:
I too think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. It takes the term "making a mountain out of a molehill" to a realistic degree. I'm all for discussion on these matters but Tore seems hellbent on creating some sort of constitution to not only his liking, but the liking of 6-7 members who don't feel comfortable around here anymore, compared to the 50 or so that love our atmosphere.

The last poll showed that the majority, by a large difference, don't want anything to change. I keep seeing "this is just for opinion" being thrown around. I don't think that's true. I feel like this is continuing because the majority of us don't want to get on board with this.

I see it like this.

Tore: You want this donut?
Vast Majority: No.

T: Don't worry. I'm just asking who wants the donut and who doesn't. It's just for opinion.
VM: Okay. We don't want the donut dude.

T: Have you seen the donut? It's got a lot of cool things that will make you REALLY like it. Here I'll show you...
V: We don't want the donut. We like what we are eating already.

T: I know. You're entitled to your opinion. If you really don't want the donut, you don't have to have it. It has sprinkles and powered sugar though. I feel it's the best option for your breakfast.
VM: WE DON'T LIKE DONUTS.

T: Right, but you see, some people over there like and are eating donuts. So, let's talk about the donut some more.
VM: FFFFFFFFFRRRRUMMSAARRRRRGGHGHAHGARRRRRRA
Remember the late great Mister Spock...


(And yes, I'm aware of the irony of posting memes in a thread whose OP seems to dislike their use.)
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:18 PM   #67 (permalink)
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All I know is, no matter what happens, I won't stop swearing, making bad jokes, and friendly name calling in threads that allow for it. That's part of the fun. However, if that becomes frowned upon, well...i'll take the infractions.

tl;dr, I agree with you, Exo.
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:24 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ki View Post
All I know is, no matter what happens, I won't stop swearing, making bad jokes, and friendly name calling in threads that allow for it. That's part of the fun. However, if that becomes frowned upon, well...i'll take the infractions.

tl;dr, I agree with you, Exo.
Neither will I. My main focus in this whole thing is making sure that mods like Janz and Goof aren't replaced with new mods who suck balls. Even if the current mod team stays and new mods are introduced who suck balls, this will also be a failure.

As for infractions? Sucks to your infractions. I'm also just getting annoyed this whole thing is receiving so much attention after so many of us stopped wanting to talk about it. The conversation is only being seriously discussed by a few people but is being wheeled out as if it is the Poll/Discussion of the century.

You can keep going Tore. The people who are having the discussions can keep going. I'm just saying that it seems like the sail is losing a lot of wind and nobody seems to notice on the side of Tore.

Don't believe me? Hell, look at the votes. Look at my votes. I side with Tore on a lot of issues. It's just that this whole thing is just too much. There was never a real issue to begin with and these huge polls are just breathing fire on a match trying to turn it into a torch. It's never been a torch. It never will be.
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:30 PM   #69 (permalink)
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anyone who reports a post is a bitch imo
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:31 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Sorry. I didn't mean to say I've gotten infractions. Just saying that if I ever do for acting the way I do, I'll gladly take em. Can't say I'll learn anything if I do get them though.
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