The Handling of Personal Attacks Going Forward

Trollheart · 07-07-2018, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

This is the context that I was referring to. When you allow it in some cases, it can be hard to know where to draw the line. That's why The Batlord got a warning and not a ban.

Don't you think my response post was clearly telling him he HAD gone too far? But instead of backing away he went on about how he had the right to do it, (and to some extent, you did, too) because I had said it was all right, as if I did not also have the right to withdraw any perceived permission if I felt it was too much. Had he stopped there, we wouldn't really have a problem. Apologies, too far, move on. That's not what he did. He was told no and he continued to argue the case as if I hadn't the option of telling him to stop.

**Frownland** · 07-07-2018, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Don't you think my response post was clearly telling him he HAD gone too far? But instead of backing away he went on about how he had the right to do it, (and to some extent, you did, too) because I had said it was all right, as if I did not also have the right to withdraw any perceived permission if I felt it was too much. Had he stopped there, we wouldn't really have a problem. Apologies, too far, move on. That's not what he did. He was told no and he continued to argue the case as if I hadn't the option of telling him to stop.

So what should we do? Ban him for not apologizing even though he said that he wouldn't do it again in the future?

The Batlord · 07-07-2018, 10:35 AM

I wouldn't have gotten pissed off if I didn't care. You decided that you being offended warranted throwing me under the bus and didn't care to calm down and look at the situation and your own feelings rationally cause I guess I don't merit taking a step back before you self-righteously flip out. If this is all it takes to be "done with me" then that's your issue and I'm not about to let you project it on me.

Trollheart · 07-07-2018, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

So what should we do? Ban him for not apologizing even though he said that he wouldn't do it again in the future?

I told you I don't want a ban, nor an apology (if it was sincere, maybe, but I doubt it would be, as he still doesn't think he's in the wrong). I just want you, and him, to stop making it seem as if somehow I encouraged this, when all I did was tolerate it, and that I don't have the right to call time, and that if I do that, he should bloody well respect that. Is that too much to ask? Really?

I'm happy to let it drop, but you keep subtly pushing me as if this were my fault. I don't get the feeling I'm getting the support I should from you or other mods, and I fear this is the way things will go the next time too, which is why I am concerned that there's no real change happening.

If someone oversteps, they should recognise that they overstep, and not keep excusing it, is basically what I'm getting at here. So far, that has not happened, nor do I expect it to.

**Frownland** · 07-07-2018, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

I just want you, and him, to stop making it seem as if somehow I encouraged this, when all I did was tolerate it

You didn't encourage it persay, but it is very difficult to tell where the line is when you tolerate something without saying anything. How would we know? I mean we know now, but this is in regards to the initial post.

Quote:

and that I don't have the right to call time

Neither I nor Batlord have said or even implied that. From the moment I knew you were serious, action was taken to prevent it in the future. I think The Batlord is taking issue with the severity of your response to what he considered a light-hearted jab.

Quote:

I'm happy to let it drop, but you keep subtly pushing me as if this were my fault. I don't get the feeling I'm getting the support I should from you or other mods, and I fear this is the way things will go the next time too, which is why I am concerned that there's no real change happening

Nope. If he makes another similar joke to you he will receive a ban.

Trollheart · 07-07-2018, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I wouldn't have gotten pissed off if I didn't care. You decided that you being offended warranted throwing me under the bus and didn't care to calm down and look at the situation and your own feelings rationally cause I guess I don't merit taking a step back before you self-righteously flip out. If this is all it takes to be "done with me" then that's your issue and I'm not about to let you project it on me.

The only thing you got pissed off about was that "I couldn't take a joke". You didn't get pissed off that you'd upset me (unintentionally, I do know that) or that you had pushed things too far. You were more concerned with trying to justify your stance and making excuses for it, pushing the blame on to me instead of accepting it, apologising and moving on. You think there are no limits? You think you can say ANYTHING you like? I've news for you: you can only push people so far, and your response to my post was completely disproportionate as I already said, as a response to a joke you didn't like. Nothing offensive about my post, yours was nothing but. Why you felt you had to bring Karen into it is beyond me, unless your actual intention was to shock/hurt/upset me, all of which you did.

**Frownland** · 07-07-2018, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

The only thing you got pissed off about was that "I couldn't take a joke". You didn't get pissed off that you'd upset me (unintentionally, I do know that) or that you had pushed things too far. You were more concerned with trying to justify your stance and making excuses for it, pushing the blame on to me instead of accepting it, apologising and moving on. You think there are no limits? You think you can say ANYTHING you like? I've news for you: you can only push people so far, and your response to my post was completely disproportionate as I already said, as a response to a joke you didn't like. Nothing offensive about my post, yours was nothing but. Why you felt you had to bring Karen into it is beyond me, unless your actual intention was to shock/hurt/upset me, all of which you did.

Maybe he got pissed because you kept telling him "**** you", calling him a cocksucker, and basically saying that he was the scum of the earth?

Trollheart · 07-07-2018, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

You didn't encourage it persay, but it is very difficult to tell where the line is when you tolerate something without saying anything. How would we know? I mean we know now, but this is in regards to the initial post.

My point is (again, for the I don't know how manyth time) that once I realised he was saying that in response to a simple joke, totally unprovoked, considering the things he says, and has said, about me, yes I flipped out. Perhaps it wasn't the right way to handle it. I can accept that.

BUT

once I did, he should have backed off immediately and apologised. It was clear I was angry, was not taking it as a joke, and he continued to push me. THAT is what I have an issue with. I don't expect him to be clairvoyant, but when someone says "**** off that's not funny" it's a pretty clear indicator that it's time to stop, would you not agree?

Quote:

Neither I nor Batlord have said or even implied that. From the moment I knew you were serious, action was taken to prevent it in the future. I think The Batlord is taking issue with the severity of your response to what he considered a light-hearted jab.

He did, absolutely. He kept saying "you said I could" like a child, as if, once i had tacitly accepted the things he said there were to be no limits on what he could say. I'm baffled, honestly. There was never a meeting where we sat down, PMed each other and said "come at me bro". It just happened and I accepted it because as I've already said, I thought he knew not to go too far. And when he did, I thought he would back off.

Quote:

Nope. If he makes another similar joke to you he will receive a ban.

I suppose that's something. We'll see.

grindy · 07-07-2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

I told you I don't want a ban, nor an apology (if it was sincere, maybe, but I doubt it would be, as he still doesn't think he's in the wrong). I just want you, and him, to stop making it seem as if somehow I encouraged this, when all I did was tolerate it, and that I don't have the right to call time, and that if I do that, he should bloody well respect that. Is that too much to ask? Really?

I'm happy to let it drop, but you keep subtly pushing me as if this were my fault. I don't get the feeling I'm getting the support I should from you or other mods, and I fear this is the way things will go the next time too, which is why I am concerned that there's no real change happening.

If someone oversteps, they should recognise that they overstep, and not keep excusing it, is basically what I'm getting at here. So far, that has not happened, nor do I expect it to.

I remember you literally saying that you don't mind Batty making jokes about you and your sister because you know he's a good guy at heart and you know he doesn't mean it in a hurtful way.
Couldn't find the post but this is pretty much exactly how you said it.

Trollheart · 07-07-2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Maybe he got pissed because you kept telling him "**** you", calling him a cocksucker, and basically saying that he was the scum of the earth?

Yeah, as pissed off as I was that he wished AIDS on me from my sister?

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

I remember you literally saying that you don't mind Batty making jokes about you and your sister because you know he's a good guy at heart and you know he doesn't mean it in a hurtful way.
Couldn't find the post but this is pretty much exactly how you said it.

Again, that doesn't mean he has carte blanche. That means I trust(ed) him to know where to draw the line. I didn't expect him to go as far as he did, and again it was UNPROVOKED! This is what really annoys me. There was no back-and-forth. I made a simple joke and he exploded with that comment. Why can nobody understand this? There have to be limits, and he reached them, and I told him he had reached them, but he didn't stop. How is that my fault??