Music Banter - Bob Dylan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by S. Flavious Mercurius (Post 658967)

Love Bob Dylan, especially the early stuff.

Have you heard any of his later stuff? I much prefer it in comaparison to his earlier stuff, say sort of mid 70s (Desire/Blood On The Tracks) onwards.
I have mostly all of his albums- bar a few I'm missing from roundabout the early 70s & the other 2 'gospel' albums (I have 'Saved' which isnt as bad as Its made out to be)
I still love the 'Freewheelin' Album though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirrorball95 (Post 658992)

I like the later Dylan too, but I still think, Highway 61,Freewheelin, Blobde on Blonde and Blood on the Tracks are his best stuff.

Did you see my Freewheelin' review dedicated to you? Wondering what your thoughts on the album were.

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Originally Posted by JayJamJah (Post 659048)

Yeah cool, I dont really listen to 'Blood On The Tracks' but it has some cracking songs on it. Im more of a 'Desire' man. As for the albums you mentioned, to me they're just his 'most popular' ones & I dont really care for them apart from the 'Freewheelin'' ones.
I find his early stuff a bit 'dodgy' if u like which is ironic considering his 80s stuff is my favourite lol.

As for the review, no I didnt see it. :confused:.
Ive only actually listened to the album twice but I remember it being brilliant & also I like a song
'Corrina Corrina' which i first heard Paul Weller doing a cover on the deluxe edition of 'Stanley Road'.
He also did 'Out On The Weekend' by Neil Young which was good.

Wheres the love for Talkin World War III Blues? I think it showcases some of Dylan's great sense of humour mixed in with his song writing and its my fav song off Freewheelin.

The new album is definitely a minor affair, but I'm still enjoying it.

This is routinely regarded as blasphemy by most, but I honestly relate to his last four albums more than just about anything else he's ever written. I love the classics, and I listen to them constantly, but as a person and even a writer, I go to those last four albums (particularly, the trilogy of albums that Dylan claims isn't a trilogy at all) a whole lot more. Even now, I still find a wealth of imagery and concepts to relate to. That also goes for vol. 8 in the bootleg series collection (Tell-Tale Signs).

That's just me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirrorball95 (Post 658992)

I've heard the later stuff, though i ADMIT NOT AS MUCH, he just seems so tired and depressed a lot of it.

Johnny Cash was mediocre from start to long-awaited finish. I will concede that Dylan has made some stinkers in comparision to Blood on the Tracks. BUt he is indefatigable, he keeps changing his stuff and trying things. I thought the majority of Oh Mercy was painful but there are several gems in the dross- Man in the long black coat is superb for instance.

He has his off-days/weeks/months/years/decades but the guy is only human. I remember when I saw him a few years back just after the release of Love and Theft. The first half of his show was just dull but then he kicked off and relaxed a bit and you could feel the energy. I think the reason geniuses crack so often is because normal people like us expect so much of them without ever knowing how much they put into their work.

Dylan= great, but also he is human and suffers like the rest of us. Frankly if I'd done as much as he has I'd having a hard time matching the exploits of my youth as age and death creep onwards

Quote:

Originally Posted by S. Flavious Mercurius (Post 659533)

I've heard the later stuff, though i ADMIT NOT AS MUCH, he just seems so tired and depressed a lot of it.

Yeah just out of interest, what stuff have you heard?
As for the 'tired & depressed' it is probably just him getting older and his voice changing (or getting better IMO).

Albums I recommend you check out are 'Infidels', 'Oh Mercy' & if your up for some of the same but with soulful backing singers thrown in check out 'Knocked Out Loaded' & 'Empire Burlesque'.
These are his 4 best albums for me (post Desire/Blood On The Tracks periods).

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemRob (Post 659553)

On Cash:
Please explain to me why people keep banging on about Johnny Cash?
This is a thread to discuss Bob Dylan. Ive already said before that Dylan's opinion on Johnny Cash is totally irrelevant when either
a) listening to his music
b) forming opinions on him
To do so would be so ridiculous that i would have to actually eat one of his albums to cure myself :yikes:.

On Dylan:
Also people who keep expecting for a new 'Blood On The Tracks' or 'Desire' or whatever will be waiting forever.
His new music, fair enough isnt as good as Desire or BOTT but it is still good music in its own right!
Thats what I think is important when listening to artists later work, is to judge it not by comparison but just for what it is.

Also Dylan isn't a 'genius'.
He has a very good talent in songwriting & is a natural performer.
People use the term 'genius' too often and obviously like you said he is only human and will crack under this ridiculous pressure that us so called 'normal' people put on him.

The main cause is that expectations are set way too high and if they had been lowered/even reset then im sure his latest albums would have been much more appreciated for what they are rather than put down due to comparisons to albums he made 30 odd years ago.

So make your mind up, he either a 'genius' or hes 'only human' (as you stated in quick succession) as to me 'genius' is a term massively overused and only detatches an individual from the rest of us 'normal' people as you put it.
He definitely deserves recognition but you dont need to 'dehumanize' him with terms such as 'genius' etc.

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Originally Posted by mr. goth glam (Post 659495)

All his albums since he went 'gospel' have been 'minor' affairs.
The media basicaly just wrote him off and people now dont care.
Yet another example of the way people shockingly read the papers and will believe anyway they read and use that as a basis for forming opinions (instead of forming their own).
But you dont want it to be all overblown and mass hyped and commercialised.
Dylan proved himself many many years ago and now is in the 'comfort zone' if you like and its much more interesting to listen to him now than say back in the 60s.
As for this album, I dont usually bother about the charts at all, but I think its worth noting that his album went to No1 on the charts and knocked some Lady GooGoo or whatever off the top spot.

Also i must add that;although I aint really ever payed any serious attention to the charts; when things like this crop up and you hear such nonsense was actually No1(the last ridiculous thing I heard was that 'Bob the ****1ing builder' was at no1) then it just confirms that the charts is a total joke.

P.S. Oh Mercy is a fantastic album!!! How can it be 'painful'??? I actually cringe more at his earlier 'Like A Rolling Stone' period usually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. goth glam (Post 659495)

I noticed you have the excellent Mr Tom Petty is your sig. You may(or may not) be interested to know that the song you quoted 'I Won't Back Down' was actually covered by Johnny Cash(with Tom Petty on backing) on one of his so called 'mediocre' American Recordings albums: 'American II: Solitary Man'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirrorball95 (Post 659443)

As for the review, no I didnt see it. :confused:.
Ive only actually listened to the album twice but I remember it being brilliant & also I like a song
'Corrina Corrina' which i first heard Paul Weller doing a cover on the deluxe edition of 'Stanley Road'.
He also did 'Out On The Weekend' by Neil Young which was good.

You really know your stuff.

here's a link to the review http://www.musicbanter.com/members-j...library-6.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJamJah (Post 659746)

You really know your stuff.

here's a link to the review http://www.musicbanter.com/members-j...library-6.html

Haha, interesting I dont exactly study or anything. I just have a special place in my mind for music & certain things I will just never forget.

I would say you know more than me, but I aint cut out for the big fancy reviews on the albums & I dont buy them as I think its just a way of commercialising your own opinion.
But hat's off to you for proceeding to put all your collection on the internet.
I have albums ive never listened to yet/albums I dislike/hate/albums I dont know much about the artist/albums I havent listened to in ages/albums I dont have because Ive lost them.... it would be too complex for me to do something like that.
Heres an alternate solution, how about you come round to my house and browse my cd collection. (Please Note: Entry Fee £20; Exit Fee: Death). :D

I'm. Going. To. See. Him. July. 29.
This may be the best moment of my young life. xD

I'm seeing him on August 5th, he'll be with Willie Nelson who I dont really care for but still its Dylan!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirrorball95 (Post 657304)

Really? I doubt whether you have actually 'listened' to his albums.
Now you may not get me here but what I mean is that its easy to just sit down listening to whatever album with a pessimistic pre-meditated view that his music is now crap or 'past it', but to seriously judge music I think you have to have an open mind i.e. forget about the past and concentrate on the album youre listening to alone.

Fair enough, I can accept it if you dont happen to like his music after 'Desire' as Desire is his best & he has never matched it (IMO), but that doesnt necessarily mean that all his other music is crap.
What I cannot accept is when you brand such a talented songwriter or more fittingly a great storyteller as an 'old hack' shows that you dont pay attention to the music, rather his current age; being totally irrelevant to me when it comes to the music.

When Dylan was young he was at the forefront of his era and was massively popular; at the height of his career, whatever.
But to me he had and still has a very special talent.

That talent doesn't just all of a sudden diminish once an artist reaches a certain age. Just because there not so much 'in the limelight' as such.

I think that your views on Dylan being 'past it/old hack' are very narrow minded/pessimistic based on misconceptions and unfair judgements based on his age/appearance & lengthy career (which in my opinion should be praised; not ridiculed). But your entitled to your opinion, at the end of the day..

Finally, you acknowledge that he 'can' make great music but come to the somewhat odd conclusion that he has been holding this back (i.e deliberately making supposedly 'bad' music) for the past 34 years (if you count 'Desire' as his last worthy album).
So I think your theory that he 'chooses' not to is total bull.

As for his new album, I bought it on the day it came out; also had high hopes for it after being rather let down so to speak with Neil Young's new album; & I love the album & new style he has explored throughout it & I think its one of his perhaps 'interesting' albums in a long time. The first track on the album 'Beyond Here Lies Nothin'' is fantastic & I think this album just proves that even at 66, he can still surprise people and come out with a not only good but an album with a new feel to it.

If your theory of 'just past it' or 'old hack' based on age is applicable to Dylan, then how come you give credit to Johnny Cash who is actually/or tragically was older than Dylan!! :o:

Also you keep going on about how he didnt like Johnny Cash's comeback, is this the sole reason you disregard his music and brand him a 'old hack'??
Like I said before, that is Dylan's own personal taste, if he doesnt like Johnny Cash's comeback stuff then so what?? Why should it bother you? :confused:
It doesnt affect his music in any way shape or form!

Personally I loved Johnny Cash's American Recordings sessions & thought that Rick Rubin did a great job in bringing him back to life as such and introducing him to a whole new generation of fans, but if somebody didnt like it then fair enough.

I find this rather intriguing, 'Time Out Of Mind' (1997) is one of the few Dylan albums I own that although I have heard great things about it, I cannot yet 'get into it' as such.
There always 'comes a time' (As Neil Young once famously sang :cool:) when

I go back over albums I couldnt get into in the past and will suddenly 'get' them and really like them.
Also Desire is my personal favourite Dylan album.

He's definitely a strange one is Dylan, but his music is still great. Also I'd urge to you to check out an album called 'Oh Mercy' (1989) which is fantastic.
Also most of his 90's output is worth checking out apart from 'Under The Red Sky' (1990) (unless you want a laugh)- I dont dislike the album as such, just would rather now listen to his other works.
In addition, for the record, 'Under The Red Sky' was actually the first Dylan album I bought!

You have completely misunderstood everything. Me calling dylan an "old hack" isn't ageism as you seem I meant it. It's because he is a hack and is old, being old contributes nothing to him being a hack, but it means I will add his age to it. Cash made good albums and didn't make stupid statements, and as such isn't an old hack. It has nothing to do with age, it's just normal to generally refer to someone older by their age when reffering to their hackishness :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweet_nothing (Post 660519)

I'm seeing him on August 5th, he'll be with Willie Nelson who I dont really care for but still its Dylan!

As long as you like his new bluesy style and don't mind the fact that his voice is completely shot (even more than it was on Modern Times) you'll have a good time.

From the videos I've seen of recent live performances, I actually like his voice. :o:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comus (Post 660555)

Im glad you recognise that his age has nothing to do with him supposedly being a 'hack' as you call it. What you on about- 'didnt make stupid statements'.
Even if they did you cant exactly talk!
Dylan & Cash are both excellent songwriters and singers & you should have more respect.

I disagree with the people who say Dylan's voice is 'completely shot' in his most recent material.
Ok it isnt as 'lively' (if you like) on the likes of 'Desire' but that was 30 odd years ago and he is now in his late 60s so it is to be expected.

Also I dont find it normal to refer to someones age when it is completely unrelated/unnescessary to do so when discussing a totally different aspect of that person.

I find this intriuging & prompts me to ask you if you didnt like a 'black' artist for instance would you draw upon the colour of their skin or their ethnic origin & then try to pass it off as 'normal'.

Think about it, I know its not the same thing on the 'extreme-o-meter' side of things but it is the same concept/mentality.

Finally let me ask you, are you just 'arguing for the sake of it'? :p:

Dylan's voice is UNREAL - I LOVE it - the way he continues to succeed in using it as an aesthetic instrument as it gradually and inevitably decays with age (along with the rest of his, my, and your body) is NOBLE and also awesomely, cosmically, quantum gorgeous

Dylan's 'Like a Rolling Stone' was labeled the number one song ever written by Rolling Stone Magazine. Personally, I like 91 revisted and bringin' it all back home better than his other work; however, 'Tangled up in Blue' is my favorite song by Dylan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicktarist (Post 661024)

Tangled Up In Blue along with Idiot Wind are the two best tracks on 'Blood On The Tracks' but my favourite song would have to be 'Hurricane' from the 'Desire' album- which also happens to be my favourite Dylan record.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirrorball95 (Post 660689)

That's stupid. You can't juxtapose ethnicity and age and treat it like they effect musical equally. They don't. Ethnicity is completely irrelevant to musical quality while age on the other hand isn't. People can go senile or just lost touch as they grow old and the same thing can happen to musicians; ignoring their age as a factor based on some misguided beliefs on ageism would be retarded particularly if they've begun "slipping" as they've grown older or like many artists (a la Madonna, Rolling Stones, AC/DC) been pulling some embarrassing stunts/live shows in a desperate attempt to stay "relevant."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirrorball95 (Post 660689)

The American recordings are brilliant, so is Dylans 60's and 70's work

Quote:

I disagree with the people who say Dylan's voice is 'completely shot' in his most recent material.
Ok it isnt as 'lively' (if you like) on the likes of 'Desire' but that was 30 odd years ago and he is now in his late 60s so it is to be expected.

Nothing wrong with his voice, there is however so much wrong with his delivery, songwriting and choice of melodies.

Quote:

Also I dont find it normal to refer to someones age when it is completely unrelated/unnescessary to do so when discussing a totally different aspect of that person.

Old Hack defines him perfectly, becuase he is old and a hack, even though they are completely unrelated.

Quote:

I find this intriuging & prompts me to ask you if you didnt like a 'black' artist for instance would you draw upon the colour of their skin or their ethnic origin & then try to pass it off as 'normal'.

What the **** does colour have to do with anything? I'm sorry but bringing that up is pretty racist.

Quote:

Finally let me ask you, are you just 'arguing for the sake of it'? :p:

You're the one arguing, not me, I made an opinion and you dissagreed and rightfully posted such, however that makes you the starter of the argument, so I'm going to ask you the same thing.

Oh and for the record Bob Dylan's new album is terrible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack (Post 662406)

Oh and for the record Bob Dylan's new album is terrible.

Cool! I'm looking forward to it!

I like him, he's a cool dude. I like too many songs by him to name though. Maybe I'll start to listen to some right now.. :o)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO (Post 73928)

The only man alive in music today that deserves the title "living legend"

Hey, some of the stones are still kickin' (barely).

Some of my fav. Dylan songs are It's all over now Baby Blue, Leopard-skin pill box hat, Ballad of a thin man, Visions of Johanna (I'm pretty sure he wrote this song for me, since that's my name :love: ), and You're a big girl now. He's written a ton of music! Not all of it is really good but I enjoy most of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack (Post 662406)

Oh and for the record Bob Dylan's new album is terrible.

I have not heard it but it got really good reviews. I'll have to check it out.

check this out
typo_dylan

Blood On The Tracks is my current favorite Dylan album. Overplayed as it may be, Tangled Up In Blue is the third best song on the album.

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Originally Posted by fasho (Post 673344)

blood on the tracks is my current favorite dylan album. Overplayed as it may be, tangled up in blue is the third best song on the album.

1 & 2?

1.Lily, Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts
2.Shelter From The Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack (Post 662406)

Oh and for the record Bob Dylan's new album is terrible.

You lie, señor

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaSho (Post 673687)

1.Lily, Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts
2.Shelter From The Storm

I do indeed like Shelter From the Storm

I'm doing a wannabe documentary about my little one horse town and I found this song fit really well in it.

vinyl master of Together Through Life is not only a super album, but one of the best sounding digital rocknroll recordings I've heard yet ... haven't checked out the CD yet, but a cursory glance at the tracklisting (different) and sonic waveforms (real different) has got my attention to be sure ... Flowering Toilet: Bob Dylan - Together Through Life

I think I'll pick up a copy of Together Through Life when I can.

Dunno about everyone else, but I loved Modern Times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulldog (Post 699982)

I think I'll pick up a copy of Together Through Life when I can.

Dunno about everyone else, but I loved Modern Times.

Modern Times is terrific

Indeed.

"Ain't Talkin'" is springloaded with all kinds of mystical gems and "When the Deal Goes Down" almost brings a tear to my eye every time I listen to it.

I even felt it was better than "Love and Theft" in some respects.

"Together Through Life" has been a tough one to sit and listen to. I just can't seem to devote much time to it and when I do, I feel like I'm straining to enjoy it. "Forgetful Heart" was a great track though, and "Beyond Here Lies Nothing" almost sounds like Dylan and John Mayall got together.

I was really hoping that the new album would be a continuation of what he did with songs like "Ain't Talkin'", and every review I read definitely suggested that it was. But it turned out to be quite a departure from what I was hoping for.

But fans have been saying that about Dylan since 1966. lol.

Listening to Dylan play his newer stuff live, is like trying to overhear an argument between the couple next door. You can hear muffled ranting, but can't quite get the gist of what's actually going on.

Yeah, but his band is terrific.

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track (Post 710523)

its a metaphor no one really gets anyhow. be thankful you're there and hum like the rest of us.