Charles Manson

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 03-30-2011, 10:37 AM

Ok, maybe I'm really weird, or disturbed or something. But, I on a whim downloaded an album of hits made by Charles Manson's family named 'The Manson Family Jams'.

Now, I'm not say I believing Charles Mansons bat**** crazy political philosophies, or whatnot. Because I definitely do not. I just was curious what they sounded like. Surprisingly enough... they're quite good. Not exceptional, but for 60s acid-folk hippie music it's shockingly solid. Plus, the lyrics themselves are creepy as all Hell(most of these were written by Manson right after he was jailed, and recorded while the FBI were still looking for members of his family).

Extremely ironic even to the point of humor for those twisted enough.

ThePhanastasio · 03-30-2011, 10:42 AM

Yeah, I have his Indestructible Spirit album, and it surprised me by not being bad. I've definitely listened to it a few times.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 03-30-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhanastasio

Yeah, I have his Indestructible Spirit album, and it surprised me by not being bad. I've definitely listened to it a few times.

Hmmm... Might give that a shot. Looks like a fan assembled piece. I just downloaded the actual demo he gave to the Beach Boys, but have yet to listen to it. Albeit, the one Beach Boys song accredited to him sounds a ****load like the words of a manipulative cult leader:

Lisnaholic · 04-08-2011, 04:34 PM

I`d like to recommend a fascinating book called "The Family", by Ed Sanders, which chronicles the Manson story and which is an example of the New Journalism style pioneered by Tom Wolfe and others. Perhaps you know it already.

I`m sorry, but having read about the rapes and murders that he instigated, I can`t even bring myself to click on these music clips. Not that I`m trying to take some morally high-ground position; in fact, I admire your approach. A piece of music, after all, is just a piece of music, and your attitude raises an interesting question : should we assess a piece of art irrespective of the moral/political opinions of the artist ?

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 04-08-2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

I`m sorry, but having read about the rapes and murders that he instigated, I can`t even bring myself to click on these music clips. Not that I`m trying to take some morally high-ground position; in fact, I admire your approach. A piece of music, after all, is just a piece of music, and your attitude raises an interesting question : should we assess a piece of art irrespective of the moral/political opinions of the artist ?

Pete Townshend was caught downloading child pornography. Do you listen to the Who?

Stephen · 01-23-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

I`m sorry, but having read about the rapes and murders that he instigated, I can`t even bring myself to click on these music clips. Not that I`m trying to take some morally high-ground position; in fact, I admire your approach. A piece of music, after all, is just a piece of music, and your attitude raises an interesting question : should we assess a piece of art irrespective of the moral/political opinions of the artist ?

Would his music have deserved or received any attention if he wasn't already famous for being psycho?

Lisnaholic · 04-09-2011, 05:42 PM

Aha ! That`s a very good point. Yes, it`s true, somehow I can live with Pete`s indiscretion and it doesn`t worry me too much. In fact, plenty of rock stars have done worse things and I can still listen to their music. But there`s a difference of degree, isn`t there, between a professional musician who does something wrong and a criminal whose adult life has been largely devoted to the sadistic control of others, and who, in passing, produced a bit of music ?

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 04-09-2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

But there`s a difference of degree, isn`t there, between a professional musician who does something wrong and a criminal whose adult life has been largely devoted to the sadistic control of others, and who, in passing, produced a bit of music ?

Even though I don't support Charles Manson who is basically a psychotic evil bigot, and never will. In his defense, he was heavily exploited by the Beach Boys, in my opinion. He basically gave them a ****load of groupies so they kept him around, even stealing a song or two from him, and then kicked him out when he was less convenient.

In essence, this was before he trained his family to do the psychotic things. Again, I don't condone, but he was pretty used. I mean, do you like the Beach Boys who housed him on the false promise they'd make a career of him, and stole his songs? They're his songs. If you don't want to support them you might as well stop ever listening to the Beach Boys if you do.

Lisnaholic · 04-09-2011, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaligojurah

Even though I don't support Charles Manson who is basically a psychotic evil bigot, and never will. In his defense, he was heavily exploited by the Beach Boys, in my opinion. He basically gave them a ****load of groupies so they kept him around, even stealing a song or two from him, and then kicked him out when he was less convenient.

In essence, this was before he trained his family to do the psychotic things. Again, I don't condone, but he was pretty used. I mean, do you like the Beach Boys who housed him on the false promise they'd make a career of him, and stole his songs? They're his songs. If you don't want to support them you might as well stop ever listening to the Beach Boys if you do.

Yes, I remember, right at the beginning of this thread you made it clear that you were talking about the music, not supporting or condoning the man, which is a commendable distinction to make.

You`re right, as well, the Beach Boys shouldn`t have recorded his songs without crediting him as composer, but wasn`t it only ever the one song ? I`m not really convinced that Manson was quite the victim that you paint him out to be. After all, Dennis Wilson let the Manson Family use his home. Did Wilson really promise, as well, to make a musical career for Manson, or did he just promise to give the guy a try out and access to one of the most sought-after recording studios of the time ?

Yes, the Manson groupies probably made quite an impact on Dennis Wilson ( although I imagine that any one of the Beach Boys could probably have picked up a groupie in their own right if they felt so inclined).
Anyway, if you`re interested, here are a couple of quotes from Ed Sanders` The Family about what was apparently going on at the time:

* " Returning from a recording session at 3 a.m.,Wilson discovered Manson and about twenty nubile caressing females in his living room. A friendship developed, and the Manson group underwent a multi-month mooch on Wilson`s resources that drained him of about $100,000."
* " There was one incident when M pulled a knife on Wilson, held it to his throat and said, " What would you do if I killed you? " Wilson reportedly just shrugged and said, " Do it !" and M lowered the blade."
* " When the single ( Cotton Fields/Never Learn Not To Love ) was released, it did not sell so well. As payment for the song Manson evidently got some cash and a BSA motorcycle."
* "Things got weird for Manson (at Wilson`s house). The Family had pretty much devoured the scene. Wilson`s fabulous rock and roll wardrobe became community property and Manson gave away Wilson`s gold records. This was evidently distressing to Wilson, who abandoned ship and moved to a house near the beach. Shortly thereafter, Dennis Wilson`s manager threw Manson and crew off the property."

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 04-09-2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Yes, I remember, right at the beginning of this thread you made it clear that you were talking about the music, not supporting or condoning the man, which is a commendable distinction to make.

You`re right, as well, the Beach Boys shouldn`t have recorded his songs without crediting him as composer, but wasn`t it only ever the one song ? I`m not really convinced that Manson was quite the victim that you paint him out to be. After all, Dennis Wilson let the Manson Family use his home. Did Wilson really promise, as well, to make a musical career for Manson, or did he just promise to give the guy a try out and access to one of the most sought-after recording studios of the time ?

Yes, the Manson groupies probably made quite an impact on Dennis Wilson ( although I imagine that any one of the Beach Boys could probably have picked up a groupie in their own right if they felt so inclined).
Anyway, if you`re interested, here are a couple of quotes from Ed Sanders` The Family about what was apparently going on at the time:

* " Returning from a recording session at 3 a.m.,Wilson discovered Manson and about twenty nubile caressing females in his living room. A friendship developed, and the Manson group underwent a multi-month mooch on Wilson`s resources that drained him of about $100,000."
* " There was one incident when M pulled a knife on Wilson, held it to his throat and said, " What would you do if I killed you? " Wilson reportedly just shrugged and said, " Do it !" and M lowered the blade."
* " When the single ( Cotton Fields/Never Learn Not To Love ) was released, it did not sell so well. As payment for the song Manson evidently got some cash and a BSA motorcycle."
* "Things got weird for Manson (at Wilson`s house). The Family had pretty much devoured the scene. Wilson`s fabulous rock and roll wardrobe became community property and Manson gave away Wilson`s gold records. This was evidently distressing to Wilson, who abandoned ship and moved to a house near the beach. Shortly thereafter, Dennis Wilson`s manager threw Manson and crew off the property."

Well, he had to have known Manson was an ex con. It's foolish to invite an ex con into your house just for an orgy or two. Besides, if Wilson didn't expect Manson to expect him to give him a chance. Why did Manson share his demo with Wilson? Seems very odd thing to do.

03-30-2011, 10:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
ThePhanastasio Killed Laura Palmer Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ashland, KY Posts: 1,679	Yeah, I have his Indestructible Spirit album, and it surprised me by not being bad. I've definitely listened to it a few times. __________________ Phish: Studio Discography Reviewed 100 Albums I Heartily Recommend My last.fm It's a hand-me-down, the thoughts are broken Perhaps they're better left unsung

04-08-2011, 04:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
Lisnaholic ...here to hear... Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: He lives on Love Street Posts: 4,444	I`d like to recommend a fascinating book called "The Family", by Ed Sanders, which chronicles the Manson story and which is an example of the New Journalism style pioneered by Tom Wolfe and others. Perhaps you know it already. I`m sorry, but having read about the rapes and murders that he instigated, I can`t even bring myself to click on these music clips. Not that I`m trying to take some morally high-ground position; in fact, I admire your approach. A piece of music, after all, is just a piece of music, and your attitude raises an interesting question : should we assess a piece of art irrespective of the moral/political opinions of the artist ?

04-09-2011, 05:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
Lisnaholic ...here to hear... Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: He lives on Love Street Posts: 4,444	Aha ! That`s a very good point. Yes, it`s true, somehow I can live with Pete`s indiscretion and it doesn`t worry me too much. In fact, plenty of rock stars have done worse things and I can still listen to their music. But there`s a difference of degree, isn`t there, between a professional musician who does something wrong and a criminal whose adult life has been largely devoted to the sadistic control of others, and who, in passing, produced a bit of music ?