Charles Manson

[Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra]

Ok, maybe I'm really weird, or disturbed or something. But, I on a whim downloaded an album of hits made by Charles Manson's family named 'The Manson Family Jams'.

Now, I'm not say I believing Charles Mansons bat**** crazy political philosophies, or whatnot. Because I definitely do not. I just was curious what they sounded like. Surprisingly enough... they're quite good. Not exceptional, but for 60s acid-folk hippie music it's shockingly solid. Plus, the lyrics themselves are creepy as all Hell(most of these were written by Manson right after he was jailed, and recorded while the FBI were still looking for members of his family).



Extremely ironic even to the point of humor for those twisted enough.

[ThePhanastasio]

Yeah, I have his Indestructible Spirit album, and it surprised me by not being bad. I've definitely listened to it a few times.

[Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra]

Originally Posted by ThePhanastasio

Yeah, I have his Indestructible Spirit album, and it surprised me by not being bad. I've definitely listened to it a few times.

Hmmm... Might give that a shot. Looks like a fan assembled piece. I just downloaded the actual demo he gave to the Beach Boys, but have yet to listen to it. Albeit, the one Beach Boys song accredited to him sounds a ****load like the words of a manipulative cult leader:

[Lisnaholic]

I`d like to recommend a fascinating book called "The Family", by Ed Sanders, which chronicles the Manson story and which is an example of the New Journalism style pioneered by Tom Wolfe and others. Perhaps you know it already.

I`m sorry, but having read about the rapes and murders that he instigated, I can`t even bring myself to click on these music clips. Not that I`m trying to take some morally high-ground position; in fact, I admire your approach. A piece of music, after all, is just a piece of music, and your attitude raises an interesting question : should we assess a piece of art irrespective of the moral/political opinions of the artist ?

[Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra]

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

I`m sorry, but having read about the rapes and murders that he instigated, I can`t even bring myself to click on these music clips. Not that I`m trying to take some morally high-ground position; in fact, I admire your approach. A piece of music, after all, is just a piece of music, and your attitude raises an interesting question : should we assess a piece of art irrespective of the moral/political opinions of the artist ?

Pete Townshend was caught downloading child pornography. Do you listen to the Who?

[Lisnaholic]

Aha ! That`s a very good point. Yes, it`s true, somehow I can live with Pete`s indiscretion and it doesn`t worry me too much. In fact, plenty of rock stars have done worse things and I can still listen to their music. But there`s a difference of degree, isn`t there, between a professional musician who does something wrong and a criminal whose adult life has been largely devoted to the sadistic control of others, and who, in passing, produced a bit of music ?

[Sansa Stark]

I don't believe there's a difference. He was a ****ed up guy who grew up ****ed up, and did ****ed up things. I feel bad for the guy, I've read tons about him. That doesn't justify what he did, but I'm not going to write off his music because he's a sociopath. I don't think it's right to say which crime is more heinous...


I love this song:

[Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra]

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

But there`s a difference of degree, isn`t there, between a professional musician who does something wrong and a criminal whose adult life has been largely devoted to the sadistic control of others, and who, in passing, produced a bit of music ?

Even though I don't support Charles Manson who is basically a psychotic evil bigot, and never will. In his defense, he was heavily exploited by the Beach Boys, in my opinion. He basically gave them a ****load of groupies so they kept him around, even stealing a song or two from him, and then kicked him out when he was less convenient.

In essence, this was before he trained his family to do the psychotic things. Again, I don't condone, but he was pretty used. I mean, do you like the Beach Boys who housed him on the false promise they'd make a career of him, and stole his songs? They're his songs. If you don't want to support them you might as well stop ever listening to the Beach Boys if you do.

[Lisnaholic]

Originally Posted by Plum

I don't believe there's a difference. He was a ****ed up guy who grew up ****ed up, and did ****ed up things. I feel bad for the guy, I've read tons about him. That doesn't justify what he did, but I'm not going to write off his music because he's a sociopath. I don't think it's right to say which crime is more heinous...

You`re right, I think he did have a brutal upbringing, and in a sense his mental problems are not his fault.

I can`t really agree, though, when you say, "I don`t believe there`s a difference .... I don`t think it`s right to say which crime is more heinous." In fact, there`s a generally agreed scheme for grading crimes, which reflects the fact that parking on a yellow line is different from murder. I`m not going to stop listening to a musician because he got a parking ticket, but I feel that Manson is really in a completely different league.

[Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra]

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

You`re right, I think he did have a brutal upbringing, and in a sense his mental problems are not his fault.

I can`t really agree, though, when you say, "I don`t believe there`s a difference .... I don`t think it`s right to say which crime is more heinous." In fact, there`s a generally agreed scheme for grading crimes, which reflects the fact that parking on a yellow line is different from murder. I`m not going to stop listening to a musician because he got a parking ticket, but I feel that Manson is really in a completely different league.

You consider child pornography the equivalent of a parking ticket?

Open your mind, man. To me, listening to Charles Manson is kind of capturing the 'outlaw spirit' that Johnny Cash attempts to capture. Only difference, Johnny Cash is not authentic(and I dare say fiercely overrated, but that's another story) it's more synthetic. Manson is a better musician, and his lyrics do feel scarily close to his 'heart' at times. Manson is not the greatest musician of all time, or even close. But he is good. Plus, you can tell he legit feels what he writes. If you wonder why anyone would become a man like him, then his own words are indispensable, and anything he gives in interviews is mindless nonsense.

However, his lyrics, and at what time they were created give a damn good indication of how his mind works. Something that should be examined. Again, this was a man who grew up in prison, and when he got out, his dream wasn't to kill anybody. His dream was to be a rockstar like the Beatles. He essentially got out, recorded some songs, and then start latching onto the Beach Boys. Again, before he killed anyone they fiercely exploited him, and kicked him out.

Manson has a prison mind. He is completely reactionary. Manson feels he was cheated by the world. He's based off of reaction, and revenge. If the Beach Boys exploiting him, feeding him, giving him clout, and promise that he was going to be something big then kicking him out probably made him feel bitter, and was probably a humongous motive for his quest for revenge. The guy is nuts. I don't feel sorry for him, but his mind is fascinating.