Does a country accent make you a country singer?
 

I'd say absolutley not but I'm interested to get people's opinion on this.

No.

they have to wear a cowboy hat
and have that instrument
that makes that "TWANG" sound
that no one cares about

You can easily make a Strat or Tele make a TWANG. The single coils are very responsive to how the strings are picked.

Modern country's songs have a similar theme going but just becuase you have the accent you aren't country. Reverent Horton Heat has it and they are rockabilly/psychobilly.

actaully i agree/disagree at the same time.. depends really. alot of popular country singers/bands have a very southen sound to them..when it comes to voice it matters sometimes with the sound and other times it doesn't. all depends really.

modern country is kind of poppy sounding more so when it comes to alot of the popular female country singers, even they used to have the counrty like accent, but in the music have lost it and now have more a pop sound to it.

but having a simple country accent can not just say you can be a country singer.. as much as the country voice in singing bugs me its not all about that one type of sound.. its not that simple having the accent doesn't make country music.

I prefer an accent when I listen to country simply because that is the style I'm used to, I only listen to old scool and old school influenced country. A country singer from NYC has significantly less credibility as far as I'm concerned

/\ I think thats because your idea of country music is damaged. Country music isn't born to the south, its actually very much in the vein of celtic folk music.

To me, the NYC country singers suck far less because their less influenced by the Nashville shlock thats, as Elvis Costello once said, modern country is just journey in cowboy hats.

Just because you sing about "southern values" and have an accent, a country star that does not make you.

sorry, I'm a big fan of the opry influenced acts

Saying if you have a country accent than it makes you a country singer is like saying if your black than than it makes you a rapper.

Well, let me rephrase...

If you are a singer and have a country accent...

So Bo Bice is a country artist?

Still no. Thats a stupid question, no offense.

I know, I think the answer is "absolutly not" but I wanted to see what other people think.

It's like Big3 said on the first page, it's more to do with Celtic music then the country style voice. Singing won't determine much, rather what you sing about and what music accompanies the voice.

Boozy still must answer my question: Is Bo Bice a country artist?

And thank you Merkaba, its rooted in the depressing folk culture of irish peasent songs. It is mostly defined by sustained notes and slide guitar. The twang is certainly a peice of country, but notes alone are simple notes.

The notes when juxtaposed and the distance between those notes are all that matter. The twang of country is not the quarter step of middle eastern music, so its a specific kind of twang.

As yourself this, if you answered yes to the original question, then can there be instrumental country music?

First of all, let's clear this up - it's not an accent, it's a dialect. If you have a "country" dialect, which really is technically called "Southern American English" - an accent, simply, is if you are speaking a language that is not your 1st spoken language. So if a person from China starts speaking American English, he will have an accent. A dialect is the deviation of the spoken Standardized language in the country that you are from.

Secondly... Big3, country music was born to the south. While it draws influence from Celtic ( as well as Gospel, Blues, and traditional folk) it still, as a genre was born in Tennesse ( look up Jimmie Rodgers and the Carter family, who are widely considered to be the founders of country music)
Also, it is very presumptuous of you to call someone elses idea of music damaged - you are growing the horns of an elitist a-hole when you do that... while in some cases it might be true, you cannot call his idea of music damaged from him saying he likes old school country without coming off like the aforementioned a-hole.

All that being said, I think modern country is a joke that has been stained by the pop influence. I liked the 1960's Nashville sound, as well as the 1950's bluegrass blow up. Can't forget the Man in Black either. When I heard they were making Walk the Line I nearly exploded. Johnny Cash? That's good country-pop.

More like country-rock...or southern rock...

It's presumptuious of you to assume you're smarter than me. Let's clear it up, you're wrong on the very first thing you've said in your argument, why would I be bothered to look up anything else?

I took linguitics courses, I knew you were wrong. I've brought the proof. Go read a book.

Main Entry: Dialect
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: local speech
Synonyms: accent, argot, can, idiom, jargon, language, lingo, localism, patois, patter, pronunciation, provincialism, regionalism, slang, terminology, tongue, vernacular, vocabulary
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2006 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved

So not only did you say I was an elitist *******, but you completly disregarded my actual points here. You said nothing about the instrumentation or placement of notes in the music, no what did you tell me?:

Jimmy Rodgers and the carter family invented coutry.

Thats simply amazing. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to guess one person didn't invent an enitre genre of music. Irish immigrants, moving to the country had more to do with country musics emmersion than anything else.

Big. I never assumed I was smarter than you, look in my post and find where I said that or even implied it... I didn't, you are the one who assumed. You also assumed I was attacking you, I was not. If you remember correctly - in some ambiguous list on the General Forums, I expressed my fondness for you as a forum member. However, you did come out sounding like an elitist a-hole.

(Note: I never called you one, I was just observing that you came off like one - in my opinion - to whoever it was that said they liked Old School country)

You were very condescending to that person - calling their idea of music damaged - basing this on 2 lines of non-formal writing. I hate when people think they are the sole possessors of some great tome of musical knowledge. I hate elitists.

And now you have taken an offensive- I understand that you misread or misunderstood my intentions of pointing out that you were coming off in a manner that is not best fitting of you- and I wish that I could have explained that better. But you are wrong about dialect and accent. They are not the same thing. And I'm glad you looked up an online thesaurus in conjuncture with your "linguistic classes" - so, I will offer my own proof... and I'm sure you've read a book or two, as I have never doubted your intelligence and will not attack it, because I am without an inferiority complex in that manner.

In spoken language - in this context - this is the correct definition of "accent"

b. One determined by the phonetic habits of the speaker's native language carried over to his or her use of another language.

now.. dialect...

a. A regional or social variety of a language distinguished by pronunciation, grammar, or vocabulary, especially a variety of speech differing from the standard literary language or speech pattern of the culture in which it exists: ie. C0ckney is a dialect of English.
Southern American English is a dialect of Standard American English

www.dictionary.com - do the 5 second search yourself if you don't believe me.

You see, the "PROOF" you had also includes lamens, and slang. Accent, when used as - oh he has a redneck accent - is SLANG. Not proper.

While I am sure you took SOME linguistic courses. Let me now flaunt my own expertise in the field - and I'll be a little bit less vague than your own claim.

I am a Theatre/Screenwriting double major. While at first glance that may not prove to be an impressive statement for this conversation- take a second to think about what that means. In case you've missed it - I'm an actor and writer, part of the trade of acting and writing is LO and BEHOLD speaking/writing in -accents/dialects... that being said, my schooling at the conservatory includes Accents and Dialects I, II, III- and Advanced Studies in Accents and Dialects... I have taken all of these classes, as well as attending more than 10 seminars given by reknowned experts on the subject of Accents and Dialects... if someone talks to me, I can get them at least to the region of the state or country that they are from. Most of the time I can pin them to a city, and some times I can narrow it down to the section of the city (especially European accents).

Long story short. I know more about this particular subject than you do. I am not being elitist in this manner, I do not think I am better than you in any way, this just happens to be what I do on a daily basis, that I have been doing since I was 6 years old.

And as for "disregarding your points" - I did not disregard them, in fact I thought you were very well informed with your knowledge of the music theory. Therefore, I had no reason to bring them up. I was merely saying that, yes, country music as a genre was born right here in the South.


Well, I'm in Chicago now. But I'm from Georgia.

The only thing that makes you a country singer is singing in a country band. Sounds reasonably straightforward, doesn't it?

oh no my dear noob, if we weren't arguing about genre's this forum we wouldn't have half as many posts.

A word to the wise: stay out of it and you will enjoy your stay here


I still like Old School Country :shycouch:
I regret nothing!!!!

Ah, maybe I should've read the other replies first.

Not to jump into the arguement, but I've always seen a dialect as a regional variant of an existing language. Americans have a slightly dissimilar vocabulary to the other English-speaking countries, but the backbone of it is still English and so 'American' is a dialect of English and not (as some Americans suggest) an entire language on it's own.

An accent is merely the regional pronounciation of specific words. The language itself is not transmuted in any way, regardless of which accent it is being spoken in.

First of all, it was Murder Junkie who probably can take it. Secondly, he was decrying the authenticity of someone as a country singer depending on geograhpic unbringing. That might be one of the more prejudicial things you could possibly think. Something someone has no control over should not be the basis for their ability to do something. if this makes me elitist *******, then yes, I am one.

Secondly, im sure you write much more than an English/Communications major. We won't refute this any longer, I'll take our qualifications to PM because I think there irrelevent.

The reason I brought up your lack of musical reasoning (and you're doing it again) is because I made sound arguments you have yet to refute. What you're essentially doing is saying "I have nothing to say about that" and you ignore it and say comments like "No, jimmy rodgers made country."

In my opinion, you're an elitist ******* for thinking that, because it was born in the south, your implication is the same as Junkies. I think you're elitist for your "let's clear this up" attitude. I think you're elitist for saying "country is a joke stained by pop music"

My original point was as valid then as it is now, potentially more so now that you've joined in the chorus with Junkie.

I live in Boston, so clearly I don't have the potential to be as good a country artist as you, born in georgia?

I want to go on a tirade here about how being from the north makes me better at doing innumerate things. I want to do this to prove my point and make you see how insane it looks when the shoe is on the other foot. I'll express forbarence here because lets keep it about Country Music.

Two Final Notes:
Nice work boozy, this is the most amount of posts in the country forum in forever.
Regardless of what it may look like I've said here, Im still looking at country as a musical style, born mostly outside of the US and focusing on slide instruments, sustained notes, and twang.

Thanks!
I feel so accomplished :)

There was certainly some good discussion here.

its no where close to over.

Oh, dear.

Big. I was just pointing out a common mistake in the dialect/accent usage. When I was told the difference, I did not think that the person who told me was elitist. I also wasn't referring to just you when I made that remark, you seem to think it was a personal attack on you, when really I put it out there for everyone who was making the mistake. If I make a mistake like that, I would want someone to tell me so I did not continue making it.

I never questioned whether or not I wrote more than you. I do however write characters to be performed by people correctly, meaning I write in dialects and accents. Not only do I write in them, I also perform them. You do not wish to discuss qualifications on the subject anymore is because I have completely trumped your argument. You were wrong. It's fine. Nobody thinks less of you.

This is the SECOND TIME I'VE SAID THIS, so pay close attention. I did not REFUTE your arguments of the musical theory of country music because I thought you were spot on. That means I agreed with you. You are now searching for an argument where there is argument to be had. Like you are trying to save face.

I didn't ignore anything, why would I bring up something that you've already said and I agree with? That's trite and redundant. Jimmy Rodgers and the Carter family founded country music as a genre. I wasn't writing that for your approval, I was writing it as a fact. In my first post, I even agreed with you outright saying that country had roots in Celtic, blues, etc etc etc. I don't know why you think I am arguing with you about that. You clearly just didn't read carefully enough. Go back and look. You are pissed off because I said you looked like an elitist 4sshole. And you did, in my opinion. Before this subsequent argument, I did not think you were one, and was surprised that you would say something so blatantly ignorant. Which is why I pointed it out.

Why am I elitist for having the opinion that modern country is being stained by the new pop sound? Can you give me a reason why that is elitist? Just give me a good reason, and I'll re-evaluate the way I write it so it doesn't sound elitist. Because it isn't.


And just so you don't bring it up again, I will also reply to your last line...

Hey, good point! I agree.

See how pointless that was me writing it out? It's a waste of forum space, and trite. If I never argued the point to begin with, I never disagreed with it.

Learn from your mistakes. Stop arguing when there is nothing left to argue about. We've agreed on the music theory, roots of country, and the fact that Rodgers and the Carters are the founders of the genre of country music. What else is there to argue about? I've settled the accent/dialect debate. I've never said I was better than you in ANYWAY, SHAPE, or FORM... stop assuming. I've actually gone as far to dissuade you from thinking that in my last post. The only thing in which I expressed superiority over you is the knowledge of the terms dialect and accent. That doesn't make you less of a person, it just means that I happen to have more knowledge in that field. NOT because I am from the South, but merely because I have been doing it for 14 years.

Got it, chief?

EDIT: I see where you got the, "I'm from Boston thing now" - Murder Junkie mentioned credibility of a NYC artist. I do not agree with that statement, and never have. MJ and I were only in agreeance in the fact that we liked Old School country, nothing more. This seems to be where the large part of the misunderstanding came from. So, knowing that now - we both should recognize that and take it into consideration

I'm starting to think less of your crowe. You come blazing out of no where, guns drawn ready to take names about me being elitist, in an argument you didn't even understand correctly, and now you come here with the most arrogant speech in the entire dialouge...

No, I don't agree that we agree, as far as this argument is concerned. I never hated old school country, in fact I like it. The Highwaymen are what country should be, and I also agree with you that modern country is (in my opinion and apparently yours) subpar to country from roughly 1970 and back.

Here's where I think we disagree:

Me and Junkie were arguing about a singers authenticity (essentially the "street cred" of country music) and (as far as Im seeing it) you confused that with me hating old school country.

Now I'll be the first to admit, I don't know where the Jeff tweedy and Son Volt come from. I know John McCrea comes from California, I'm pretty sure jenny lewis comes from there as well (California) but even if the first two are from the south, or whats considered the south, the last two are decidedly not, and they can write some amazing country songs. Langhone Slim writes the country blues, he's from PA, a state thats above the mason-dixon line.

What my point? These guys are just as "country" as everyone else. That was my original point in all of this.

Now I don't know what your original issue was, im well aware of your most recent ones (because you were nice enough to bold them) but the point is. A yankee can write a country song just as well as a good ol' boy and this is what im saying: A country accent does not make you a country artist.

(P.S. Hobo jesus once said in public forum that I didn't want to discuss something in a forum because I looked stupid. When I finish you off in PM, I want you to just come here and apologize, and we'll be even)

The Murder Junkie can take a punch.

I just stated what I preferred to listen to.
I didn't find Big3's comments condescending.
I am simply musically retarded, I accepted this long ago

To set the record straight. I was never aware of MJ's questioning of a non-southern writer's credibility. So that when Big3 and I were arguing - we were arguing completely different points. I did, however, mistakingly observe big3 acting like an elitist. I probably would have called MJ's idea of country music damaged as well.

It is still a country dialect. Not accent. If you wan't me to list and cite a bunch of resources for you to look at regarding this matter I will. Or you could just go to www.google.com and look up Southern Dialect, and you will find inummerable educational pages written about it. If you look up Southern Accent, you will find that it is only used on forums and miseducated people. Simple as that. If need be, I will cite Ivy League Professors essays on the subject. I have quite a few.

My original issue was - that I perceived you calling someone else's idea of music damaged because they preferred Old School Country. Admittedly again, I missed the point of your post because I read both of them at the same time, both of the posts being close to each other and fitting on my screen. I completely missed the "credibility" - for that, and the subsequent thought of you acting elitist. I do apologize. (although I have pointed out that I have never thought you elitist, just came off like one, and I reiterate that here)

I agree that any person, from anywhere can write a country song as well as anyone else if they possess the skills, which are not limited to a region or country. I have never disagreed with that point. Do not lump me in with the credibility statement of MJs.

I would also like an apology from you here, questioning my intelligence in the accents and dialects argument. You were wrong and yet still, you slandered me in the same - by telling me to read a book, blah blah. When, in fact, I am quite more educated on the topic than you. Not bragging. Not boasting. We have both exchanged credentials, and I feel it's blatantly obvious -that I am well versed in the areas and especially so in the fundamental definitions of the words. It is a Southern Dialect. Accent is incorrect. Even if credentials weren't a matter at hand. A simple dictionary.com search has proven you wrong, without question or gray area involved.

A country dialect, does not make you a country artist.

The Highwaymen was the first thing my now missing father played for me when I was brought home from the hospital. After that... Zeppelin.

So I'll be waiting for that apology, and make up sex.

No way it doesn't at all because if you live in a country place it doesn't automatically make you a singer.

Thats all I really needed. And frankly, Ivy League professors are usually bizzare and unhinged.

There will be no make up sex sir, you sleep on the couch.

If having a country accent made you a country singer, Primus would be on CMT...

That's a good point.

the singer has to have a southern accent, the twang from the steel guitar, that banjo pickin' in the background, and a solo for the true country song, lol.

but what i think makes country, real country different is that it tells a story, and paints a vivid picture in your head.

Or sings of your "exclusive" family in which your cousin is your sister in law and your mom is your prom date.


But seriously, broken hearts people. Its all about the "achy breaky heart"

no but it certainly helps. Any Ryan Adams fans?

Yes, he's probably got a thread somewhere.

If it did that would make Les Claypool a country singer.

Does your post here mean that you consider Ryan Adams a country singer? Just curious, because I never thought of him that way (but, then I haven't really heard a lot of his stuff with Whiskeytown).

excuse me hick. who was it that thought their second cousin was hot?