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-   -   The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/30710-wow-i-cant-believe-news-story-thread.html)

OccultHawk 05-23-2018 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1954430)
So you why are you so enamored by communism? By your standards whether you are a card carrying member or not, just merely touting communism should make you share in the guilt for the millions that died directly from communism regimes.

I don’t remember elph declaring an allegiance with Maoism or Stalinism.

“Not every socialist is an anarchist but every anarchist is a socialist.”

Substitute communist for socialist. He suppprts the people controlling industry communally and democratically not by totalitarian dictatorship or crushing state sponsored bureaucracy.

Felt like answering for you elph - correct me if I’ve misrepresented your position

Neapolitan 05-23-2018 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1954432)
I don’t remember elph declaring an allegiance with Maoism or Stalinism.

“Not every socialist is an anarchist but every anarchist is a socialist.”

Substitute communist for socialist. He suppprts the people controlling industry communally and democratically not by totalitarian dictatorship or crushing state sponsored bureaucracy.

Felt like answering for you elph - correct me if I’ve misrepresented your position

Whether he is self-declared communist or socialist or Bolshevik or Nazi (I don't know and I really don't care) but he certainly like to join in on their blame game.

Until industry is controlled by AI computers, it controlled by people.

OccultHawk 05-23-2018 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1954438)
Whether he is self-declared communist or socialist or Bolshevik or Nazi (I don't know and I really don't care) but he certainly like to join in on their blame game.

Until industry is controlled by AI computers, it controlled by people.

You been knocking back a few Coca-Colas tonight?

OccultHawk 05-24-2018 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1954442)
being that the only hope for the countries that are molested by Imperialistic powers is that enough people within that power grow a conscience such as in the case of Vietnam, there is some accountability from the governed I would say

I’ll give Lee Harvey Oswald a pass.

[MERIT] 05-24-2018 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1954003)
how do we know you're not the Zionist puppet

Because I don't promote zionist agenda. Try to keep up kiddo ;)

DwnWthVwls 05-24-2018 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic (Post 1954414)
^ Unfortunately, that's not what OH said though. He didn't qualify his comment by saying that it was just his thought and he threw in the gratuitous slur of murderer as well.
Look at how Frownland writes:-


^ This is clearly Frown's opinion, which he leaves open to debate.



^ This is slipped into a sentence so that it reads as if it were an established fact. In saying something so contentious I think it would behove OH to make clear it's just his opinion.

I don't agree with Frownland's idea that fighting soldiers are war criminals and I have no reason to imagine that Chula's dad is anything other than a regular guy who deserves respect for raising a family and making it thus far in life.

There's a reason its considered poor writing when you begin a sentence with, "in my opinion". Its redundant and obvious.

Also, it's possible to not respect people for one thing and respect them for another thing. I'd assume, based on what he's said in this thread, that Frownland doesn't disrespect his military family members and may even be close with some of them. That doesn't means he has to respect them for serving in the military.

Lisnaholic 05-24-2018 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1954428)
Totes. I never said that war criminals couldn't have a cool life, good ideas, or meaningful influence. Their decision to be a part of the military is amoral because of the horrors of war that it entails and the acceptance of those horrors that their involvement perpetuates.

^ Well that has the merit of consistancy at least! "Totes": :laughing:

Quote:

Unfounded allegations of murder? I define murder as killing a human being. What do you think happens in war?
^ Let's be aware that, afaik, there is not a single country or legal system that agrees with your definition. Although I have little sympathy with them, even those hallowed guardians and guides to morality, the organised religions, usually* distinguish between killing people in armed combat and killing people outside of armed combat.
* Yes, some religions, e.g. Buddhism, take a different position.

Also, for every immoral war of aggression, isn't there, of necessity, a corresponding war of defense in which the morality is more, er, defensable? While many men (perhaps yourself included) are honourable pacifists, there comes a point at which most people prefer to take up a gun to protect what is theirs.
( In Britain, during times of conscription, this point was neatly summed up like this: any conscripts displaying a reluctance to take up arms were asked this question- "If you saw an armed soldier raping your sister, what would you do?" Anyone who thought they would resort to violence was not thereafter considered a pacifist. )
__________________________________________________ _________________

In more pressing news, isn't anyone else alarmed that the US is edging ever closer to a constitutional crisis? The much-vaunted devision of power seems to be under threat and the "system of checks and balances" is not checking or balancing any longer. Trump is demanding that the DOJ reveal info which will damage their ability to do their job, not just now, but permanently. The Dems aren't being given so much as a seat at the table, and the bulk of the GOP are silent on Trump's escalating abuses of power. As one guy said, in the face of acknowledged Russian meddling, the GOP are not defending the country, they are defending Trump.

DwnWthVwls 05-24-2018 05:55 AM

When has the US ever gone to war because "it's the right thing to do"? It costs massive resources to fund a war, they ain't going unless they are getting something out of it. The people who serve in the military are the puppets who enable this.

You may view some of the things these soldiers aided in as helpful and good, but that doesnt negate the above, which I think is what Frown and other like minded people are arguing.

The US is analogous to the "friend" who helps you if you pay them, with the soldiers being the help? Idk, haven't put much thought into the analogy or where/if it falls apart, feel free to critique it.

Lisnaholic 05-24-2018 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1954467)
Also, it's possible to not respect people for one thing and respect them for another thing. I'm sure Frownland doesn't disrespect his military family members and may even be close with some of them. That doesn't means he has to respect them for serving in the military.

^ True.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1954467)
There's a reason its considered poor writing when you begin a sentence with, "in my opinion". Its redundant and obvious.

^ Not true. Outside of surreal/pyschedelic poetry,, etc, good writing is about conveying ideas with clarity. As we are constantly jumping between fact and opinion and it's frequently polite, if not necessary, to clearly distinguish between the two. As they say these days, "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts." Amid allegations of Fake News, it's a distinction that's becoming more and more relevant, imo.

DwnWthVwls 05-24-2018 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic (Post 1954474)
^ Not true. Outside of surreal/pyschedelic poetry,, etc, good writing is about conveying ideas with clarity. As we are constantly jumping between fact and opinion and it's frequently polite, if not necessary, to clearly distinguish between the two. As they say these days, "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts." Amid allegations of Fake News, it's a distinction that's becoming more and more relevant, imo.

Yes, true. I don't think you are from the US, but this is how it is taught:

https://www2.ivcc.edu/rambo/tip_form...ting_voice.htm
Quote:

1. Do not use first-person pronouns ("I," "me," "my," "we," "us," etc.).

Using these expressions in analytical and persuasive essays can make the writing wordy, can make the writer seem less confident of his or her ideas, and can give the essay an informal tone. Use of first-person pronouns is unnecessary in the kinds of essays you are writing for the course. Readers will know that they are reading your thoughts, beliefs, or opinions, so you do not need to state, "I think that," "I believe that," or "in my opinion." Simply delete these expressions from sentences, and you will be left with stronger sentences.

Example
I think that this character is confused.
This character is confused.
(The second sentence is less wordy, sounds more formal, and conveys a more confident tone.)

"One," "the reader," "readers," "the viewer," or something similar sometimes can be used effectively in place of first-person pronouns in formal papers, but be careful not to overuse these expressions. You want to sound formal, not awkward and stiff.

Example
I can sense the character's confusion.
Readers can sense the character's confusion.
I can find more examples if you'd like.


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