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Old 11-22-2014, 09:16 PM   #1901 (permalink)
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i'm sorry but these talking point really tend to annoy me. none of the above was done in the name of christianity except maybe on the face of it bush but really it was just basic geopolitics.

as for the atheist atrocities. isn't a coincidence that every atheist atrocity happens to be in some communist dictatorship. stalin and mao weren't like "****, since there's no god to stop us lets eliminate unwanted ethnic groups and exploit peasants to the point of starvation for the benefit of our own regime." they were atheists cause marxism saw religion as a threat so atheism was built into the ideology but besides that it's mere circumstance that they happened to be atheistic regimes that committed genocides. they didn't kill 50 million people in the name of 'who gives a **** since there's no god anyway.'
I do think it's harder to separate crappy things Muslims do from their faith but I still think you could make the same geopolitical arguments if you wanted to.

Islam is probably the worst but since there's almost zero Islamic presence where I live I'm not that worried about it. I'm more worried about the horrible things my own culture is up to.
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:30 PM   #1902 (permalink)
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yea you can make those arguments to an extent. you can blame western imperialism in the middle east for propping up the mosques as the only true cultural symbol of power where their traditions reign. and you can say they probably resent western imperialism in general and are salty about losing their caliphate however many years ago which pushes them toward islam as their last bastion of hope for reigning supreme once again.

but at the end of the day a lot of the islamic extremists are wealthy well educated men who really do hate western values and believe every word that they say with regard to representing islam. so there's an irrational religious element that isn't quite as prevalent with the christians for the most part. not to say we don't have nutty ones like that but the ones with political power are more the type to cynically exploit those irrational sentiments in the masses all the while pursuing a real and logical (and selfish) goal.
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:46 PM   #1903 (permalink)
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And yet there are still verses about a woman getting turned into salt.
For looking over her shoulder. The old testament is ridiculously misogynistic.

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Old 11-22-2014, 09:53 PM   #1904 (permalink)
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For looking over her shoulder. The old testament is ridiculously misogynistic.
It scares the sh*t out of me there are that many varieties of crazy.
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:57 PM   #1905 (permalink)
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why? that's like being scared there's so many varieties of food to eat. it all comes out the same way at the end of the day anyway.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:01 AM   #1906 (permalink)
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I'm a Christian, and let me tell you, if it wasn't for the New Testament, I'd have bailed.
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:17 AM   #1907 (permalink)
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I'm a Christian, and let me tell you, if it wasn't for the New Testament, I'd have bailed.
Is that where it gets logical/morally philosophical, and less "faithy"/ridiculous?

@JWB - I was just taking the opportunity to make a snide comment about religion. Nothing serious about that post.
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:17 AM   #1908 (permalink)
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Besides, how are you gonna tell me that some crackpot cleric who's been reading and dissecting the Quran his entire life doesn't have the right to claim some level of expertise? He lives and breathes Islam in a way that most of the people claiming that he misinterprets the text never could. Maybe God really does want believers to kill the infidels.
According to the Quran, THAT is exactly what Allah wants. Non-believers are to be converted and if they do not convert, they must be tortured and killed.

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Note that the Quran is not referring to a military enemy but those that have committed the audacious crime of disbelief or non-belief. They are either to be killed or beaten into submission. Need more?

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

There is true Islam--kill your neighbors. Don't like their lifestyle? Slaughter them. If you don't, Allah will punish in the Hereafter:

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."

And those Muslims who refuse to take part in slaughtering and subjugating non-believers?

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

According to Islam, pacifists are just lazy!!

The Quran and the Hadith are full of this garbage.

Question:
Does Islam permit a man to hit his wife?

Summary Answer:
Yes, but only if she doesn't do as he asks. The beating must cease if the woman complies with her husband's demands. Beating is also intended to be the last resort of coercing submission, behind verbal abuse and abandonment.

According her testimony in the Hadith, Muhammad, physically struck his favorite wife for leaving the house without his permission. It is not known how he treated his less-favored wives.


TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Can a Husband Beat His Wife?

And this is supposedly Allah actually speaking to Job:

Qur'an (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..."

From the Hadith, which is a particularly barbaric document:

Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

And yet, I still see women converting to Islam. Why don't they just jump into a wood-chipper and get it over with?
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:21 AM   #1909 (permalink)
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If I remember correctly from a docu: Didn't they avoid killing 1000s of people during the capture of Mecca or some major city? The people were allowed to live their and not convert, but the government or something was overthrown.
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:54 AM   #1910 (permalink)
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History is written by the victors and there is no way to verify it. Mohammad never existed to begin with so any histories centered around him are automatically false.
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