you keep deflecting with that but that's literally all the soviets did differently. They decided to buy machines instead of let their people eat. It's not like I'm arguing in favor of capitalism or saying that America didn't use conquest and slavery to benefit our position. But when we industrialized didn't have 10-30 million people die in an artificially produced famine. So when you point to the soviet union or China and maybe they're doing something better than us cause they're growing faster... Without bringing up those deaths... Yea that's propaganda.

But communism is bad. That’s the only point there is. Anything else is ridiculous.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oqwCefR-Ty...Allegiance.jpg

yea but you're simply wrong. I openly stated that America is wealthy based on conquest, slavery and winning ww2.

that was one reason, yes.

But in general they also needed to industrialize in their pov to really create communism. They needed the proletariat as a political base and the mechanized efficiency of industrial out put to truly bring them up out of backwater status and realize their communist vision.

Yeah I think you're a capitalism flip flopper tbh. Like you know it isn't the bees knees but sometimes you still find yourself channeling that kid who grew up in America learning American things and you defend stuff on reflex. There's no shame in it tbh. I find it hard sometimes to think rationally about Afghanistan personally. I mean **** the Iraq War but that mu****er hit us with planes and then the Taliban gave us the finger. Wutcha gonna do but drop bombs?

Except the stats I quoted cover people above that threshold too. That's why the number is 1.8 million as opposed to 550 thousand (the 550k being people at minimum wage or below: 1.8 million covers people above that threshold going up to at least 20 dollars an hour). I don't get what you guys are arguing with me about at all when you can't respond to actual numbers and I get handed some graph from 2012 that talks %s of demographics with no accompanying numbers in regards to the population stats it's supposedly citing.

The vast majority of Americans are way above those thresholds (which is why I cited the total U.S. population census in 2019 for reference). 1.8 million people is a drop in the bucket and nowhere near the 42% of our population (or whatever the hell OH was trying to cite). Present me information that actually proves otherwise.

It said "exactly" minimum wage. And below.

well tel me where I contradicted myself and maybe then I'll admit you're onto something

But so far I'm not noticing the flip flop

Capitalism is effective at one thing which is creating wealth and streamlining production. It's bad at other things like the environment, it creates inequality, etc.

So you’re claiming there’s only 1.8 million people making less than $20 an hour in the entire United States? If you are I’ll bet a permaban you’re wrong.

how do you ensure the other side also doesn't have guns