The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

~~jwb~~ · 11-05-2019, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Lucem and elphenor: morality shouldn't be solely dictated by societal norms

Jwb: if morality exists outside of society then show us the one true moral code that cures all ills across the globe or you're wrong

...I didn't say there was.

**Frownland** · 11-05-2019, 10:29 AM

It's almost like my post was an intentionally facetious misreading of the discussion.

Lucem Ferre · 11-05-2019, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

I agree and that's basically my point. There is something to morality more than just causing the least amount of suffering.

That choice would be harmful though. Maybe suffering is as complicated as morality. Maybe the complications of human suffering is why morality is complicated.

~~jwb~~ · 11-05-2019, 10:38 AM

Why is it harmful if it leads to less suffering?

**Frownland** · 11-05-2019, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Why is it harmful if it leads to less suffering?

By literally causing harm.

~~jwb~~ · 11-05-2019, 10:45 AM

You understand that when utilitarians talk about the least amount of harm they are basically referring to suffering vs happiness?

Lucem Ferre · 11-05-2019, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Why is it harmful if it leads to less suffering?

Because human suffering isn't as simple as you're making it out to be?

And mostly because it's his choice if he wants to end his own suffering.

To him dying might out weigh the suffering of life.

Also, it's just a very lazy way to end somebody's suffering that doesn't actually stop the event that causes the suffering.

Lucem Ferre · 11-05-2019, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

You understand that when utilitarians talk about the least amount of harm they are basically referring to suffering vs happiness?

You never considered that he may be happier enduring his suffering than he is with giving up.

Lucem Ferre · 11-05-2019, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

You understand that when utilitarians talk about the least amount of harm they are basically referring to suffering vs happiness?

Or maybe you're trying to straw man me with that because it makes it easier for you to argue against that frame even though you basically lack the understanding of how nuanced and complicated human suffering is.

~~jwb~~ · 11-05-2019, 10:53 AM

Yes it's his choice. I agree. That's why I don't think it's simply down to what "harms or helps."

That's just an ad hoc rationalization for morality, not the driving force. Morality is largely instinctual. You just feel it's wrong to kill an innocent man against his will regardless of any calculation regarding suffering or harm.

11-05-2019, 10:29 AM	#19412 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	It's almost like my post was an intentionally facetious misreading of the discussion. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

11-05-2019, 10:38 AM	#19414 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Why is it harmful if it leads to less suffering?

11-05-2019, 10:45 AM	#19416 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	You understand that when utilitarians talk about the least amount of harm they are basically referring to suffering vs happiness?

11-05-2019, 10:53 AM	#19420 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Yes it's his choice. I agree. That's why I don't think it's simply down to what "harms or helps." That's just an ad hoc rationalization for morality, not the driving force. Morality is largely instinctual. You just feel it's wrong to kill an innocent man against his will regardless of any calculation regarding suffering or harm.