Money is power, capitalism is when hard social distinctions for who should hold money and power become nebulous and undefined but the people who previously held money and power made the rules and created the conditions for who now holds the money and power, and now simulcra confuses the **** out of you and makes reality something impossible to define.

There is no easy answer to any of this, but just know that any current definition of money and power exists to ease the confusion of people who will never understand the nature of the society they rule.

Technically, yes. Working for anybody will always be exploitation.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exploiting

How ever, working lower class or working class jobs where they expect more from you than they are willing to give back just because they know you rely on the income for survival is an inhumane and evil form of exploitation. I'm pretty sure they mostly hate that.

you guys realize capitalism isn't some subjective term but rather something you could Google to find out what it means?

I always thought capitalism was when the means of production is in the hands of private interest.

that is much closer but I think would include other systems besides capitalism

Would it?

Socialism is when the government ceases the means of production for redistribution and communism is when the people share the means of production.

Im pretty sure they just dont want to have to work at all even on their own terms.

Christmas is usually a slack time when it comes to news stories; so many things are closed down and God is too busy with his son's birthday party to organize any natural disasters. Even so...

...this debate has been more of a filler than this thread really needed. It started on p.2123, and works out to about 250 posts in two days. Figures like that would've made me a happy man when I was doing that FAIR album club in the World Music section. :(

^ I can sympathise with this comment, jwb. I had a sense of wasted time yesterday as I read through the bulk of this debate, but at least thanks to you I can now play the grammar nazi:-

pass time =/= pastime

Score! My time has been validated after all :tramp:

Meh. If youre a contractor and youre paid to install a new hot water heater what about it is not on your own terms? Youre agreeing to price and getting the job done however you see fit.

^ Yep, I think elphenor's first statement is a bit too sweeping to stand up to much scrutiny. In one sense, outside of literal slavery, any job is "on your own terms" because you walk in the door and agree to do it.

^ This statement holds up better, imo, though personally I'd take out the word "creatively" as that only applies to some hobbies. To me, the defining things about hobbies are:
i) you choose what you want to do
ii) don't get paid for them
iii) you can stop when you want.