The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by Trollheart

I take your points OH (I may give them back but I'm short on points at the moment so bear with me), however I think it does have to be taken into account that the woman is now so very old and more to the point - she was a frigging secretary! Likelihood is that, yes, she typed up reports on so many thousands killed today etc, but for her it was just a job. Now I'm not going to advance the tired old defence "I was just following orders", which I never accept anyway. But as you yourself pointed out in another thread, or maybe this one, not sure - we'd all be collaborators in Nazi Germany. And if you're a girl of 21 and you're offered what might be seen as a plum post as secretary to the commandant of a concentration camp, would you refuse it? If you did, would you not bring suspicion upon yourself? Why is she turning the job down? Do we need to explore her loyalties, her family, her friends?

And at that age, right or wrong, 21 is just a kid. No 21-year-old German girl is going to be politically aware enough to know what she's doing is wrong. And is it wrong anyway? She's literally a pen-pusher: should she be held responsible because she had a job in a death factory? How much do we know about how much she knew about what went on?

I know it's hard to balance, but I just don't see the point. It's petty (in that sense) revenge. Different with Eichmann. Yes, he was in his eighties when hanged but he was a big wheel and personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands. BIG difference.

Well they’re not trying to execute her or paint her as the equivalent of Eichmann. Be careful that you don’t mischaracterize what’s taking place here.

[OccultHawk]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...mgard.amp.html

Woman, 95, Indicted on 10,000 Counts of Accessory to Murder in Nazi Camp

[OccultHawk]

This actually imo is a much more interesting story with similar ethical considerations:

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/04/96396...-of-war-crimes

Ugandan Child Soldier-Turned-Rebel Commander Is Convicted Of War Crimes

[Trollheart]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Well they’re not trying to execute her or paint her as the equivalent of Eichmann. Be careful that you don’t mischaracterize what’s taking place here.

That's why I asked for the link. Thanks. I've read it now, and I don't see anything in it to change my opinion. Surely hundreds, even thousands of clerical workers were employed in concentration camps? What were they all to do? Revolt? Quit? People had to earn a living. I just don't see the need. I think it's all posturing and revenge-motivated, and in some ways could be compared to how the Nazis reacted as the camps were liberated, killing as many prisoners as they could before they were stopped. Doesn't the link say they want to "get as many of these as they can before they die"? It just sounds a little vindictive to me. What good is it going to do?

I'm all for high or even low-ranking officers, guards, anyone involved who would have had daily contact with the prisoners and known exactly what was going on to stand trial, but to paint all the workers with the one brush and assume that just because they were there they share the guilt, is in my own personal opinion wrong and unfair.

Of course, were I a Jew I might think differently. But I wonder.

By the way, before anyone jumps down my throat about the comment above re the killing of prisoners, I'm not in any way trying to say they're the same, just that the motivation for both acts could be seen to be similar. Obviously, again, I don't intend any offence and I don't take these matters lightly, but I don't see them as black-and-white-you-were-there-so-you're-guilty ones either. I think it's easy for us to make judgements when we have no clue what it was like to live as a German under Hitler. Who among us would not have worked in a camp if they needed the money? Be honest. And also, how do we know for sure that she was aware of what was going on, or at least the degree to which it was going on?

[The Batlord]

No I wouldn't work in a ****ing concentration camp.

[OccultHawk]

Surely hundreds, even thousands of clerical workers were employed in concentration camps? What were they all to do? Revolt? Quit?

Yes ffs. I’ve sacrificed and compromised my ability to make a living over moral issues.

You think I’d take a job at an ICE detention center? I’d ****ing starve or put a bullet in my head first. Believe that. Some things are more important than that next breath of air.

Life puts tough dilemmas in front of some people. This lady obviously had unfortunate circumstances but goddamn that’s not a “I’m just doing my job” type of situation.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

No I wouldn't work in a ****ing concentration camp.

Church

[Trollheart]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Church

Nor a church?

[The Batlord]

And tbh if a culture is so morally bankrupt that normal people would take a career in genocide then that's not the the time to make moral standards even more lax. Everyone should feel in their bones that mass murder isn't tolerable. I'm sorry if my position is too radical.

[Trollheart]

All right Hawk, tell me this. It's easy to say you'd not work in such-and-such a place on grounds of personal choice, fine. But if (and I'm not saying this was the case but we all know what Nazi Germany was like) you were told you had to/should work somewhere and that if you didn't it was said, or strongly intimated that suspicion would fall on you, and your house might be raided, friends questioned, all sort of crap said and done about and to you because suddenly you were a potential enemy of the state, would you still turn down the job?

I'm not saying she was under that sort of pressure - maybe she wasn't. But we don't know. The interview that was linked in that article is in German so I can't make head or tail of it. But allowing that she had that sort of choice - basically you're with us or you're against us - would you still be so quick to dump the job?

It's easy to say hell yeah I'd do this that or the other when there are no actual consequences to your decision, your stand, other than losing out on a paycheque. If your liberty/life was at stake would you still make that decision?