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Old 08-13-2021, 07:13 PM   #23011 (permalink)
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Another Vietnam.
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Old 08-14-2021, 07:01 AM   #23012 (permalink)
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It would only be unbelievable if the Taliban weren't taking over Afghanistan.
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Old 08-14-2021, 07:03 AM   #23013 (permalink)
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I agree with the last few posts. I'm disappointed that the Afghan government couldn't do better at standing alone, but it shows the extent to which US/Brit intervention was trying to push water uphill the whole time: an effort likely to fail.

Moderate Afghans had a chance at self-government after the Russians left, but blew it because of corruption and in-house conflicts. Now they are blowing it again by being militarily unready.

What bewilders me is how strong and/or popular the Taliban have remained, given their cruel repressive fundamentalism.



This pre- and post- Taliban shot of the Bamiyan Buddahs sends a message: "Support the Taliban and we will reduce your life to rubble too"
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Old 08-14-2021, 07:21 AM   #23014 (permalink)
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What bewilders me is how strong and/or popular the Taliban have remained, given their cruel repressive fundamentalism.
Many were driven to it as a way to fight against their country being invaded. Removing foreign military presence will likely undercut that recruiting incentive and with a focus shifting from fighting the u.s. to domestic issues, there could be an organic turn of the tide against extremist groups. It's not like we can just put the cat back in the bag, but it might starve and die.
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Old 08-14-2021, 07:34 AM   #23015 (permalink)
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Many were driven to it as a way to fight against their country being invaded. Removing foreign military presence will likely undercut that recruiting incentive and with a focus shifting from fighting the u.s. to domestic issues, there could be an organic turn of the tide against extremist groups. It's not like we can just put the cat back in the bag, but it might starve and die.
Yes, that's true about foreign intervention being a big rallying cry for the Taliban. I hope you're right about their popularity waning once the US are out. Unfortunately, any dwindling popularity for the Taliban may not result in their relaxing their grip on the country; I don't think the Taliban are swayed much by polls, opinion pieces in the newspapers, protesting students, etc.
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Old 08-14-2021, 09:19 AM   #23016 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lisnaholic View Post
I agree with the last few posts. I'm disappointed that the Afghan government couldn't do better at standing alone, but it shows the extent to which US/Brit intervention was trying to push water uphill the whole time: an effort likely to fail.

Moderate Afghans had a chance at self-government after the Russians left, but blew it because of corruption and in-house conflicts. Now they are blowing it again by being militarily unready.

What bewilders me is how strong and/or popular the Taliban have remained, given their cruel repressive fundamentalism.



This pre- and post- Taliban shot of the Bamiyan Buddahs sends a message: "Support the Taliban and we will reduce your life to rubble too"
I think your emphasis is backwards. I don't think American politicians who don't have the will to build infrastructure in their own country ever gave a **** about infrastructure in Afghanistan. They just wanted military bases. And I doubt they gave a **** about building any kind of political infrastructure either. Just make sure your puppets are willing to take your money. And the military leaders probably just wished they could have turned the whole country into a crater.

I'm guessing any "good" Afghanis weren't corrupt enough to exist in the soon-to-be-not-current regime.
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Old 08-14-2021, 04:32 PM   #23017 (permalink)
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I think your emphasis is backwards. I don't think American politicians who don't have the will to build infrastructure in their own country ever gave a **** about infrastructure in Afghanistan. They just wanted military bases. And I doubt they gave a **** about building any kind of political infrastructure either. Just make sure your puppets are willing to take your money. And the military leaders probably just wished they could have turned the whole country into a crater.
Well, I don't know the details, but I don't think the Americans were there to build infrastructure anyway. Weren't they there to give a bit of military protection, giving the Afghans a chance to fix their own infrastructure and politics? Like putting up a fence round a patch of corn; keeping the deer away and hoping that something will grow.
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Old 08-14-2021, 10:20 PM   #23018 (permalink)
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I think your emphasis is backwards. I don't think American politicians who don't have the will to build infrastructure in their own country ever gave a **** about infrastructure in Afghanistan. They just wanted military bases. And I doubt they gave a **** about building any kind of political infrastructure either. Just make sure your puppets are willing to take your money. And the military leaders probably just wished they could have turned the whole country into a crater.

I'm guessing any "good" Afghanis weren't corrupt enough to exist in the soon-to-be-not-current regime.
Yeah i also disagree

What most people don't realize about the Soviet invasion is that, not that I'm defending the soviets, but they invaded after the local govt requested intervention. Because the govt at the time was allied with the USSR and was losing its grip on control of Afghanistan because insurgents who styled themselves as mujahideen or afghani nationalists... And they resented how the govt was pushing western/modern ideals like sending women to school, being more secular, etc. And the US was funding them before the soviets invaded. Yes, you heard me right. Not only were the soviets requested to intervene, but they were requested to do so after countries like the US and pakistan helped destabilize their country through covertly funding rebels to undermine the local govt and thus the Soviet sphere of influence in afghanistan. After said rebels bleed the Soviet invaders dry with asymmetric guerilla resistance, we no longer had a dog in that fight so we pulled out any involvement and allowed the inevitable power vacuum to devolve into inevitable chaos as different groups engaged in bloody civil conflict until the Taliban came to control most of the country.

So yeah... Afghanistan didn't drop the ball here. They really never had a ball to drop in the first place.

Last edited by jwb; 08-14-2021 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 08-16-2021, 06:03 AM   #23019 (permalink)
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Another homicidal "toddler" in the news

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"I literally just got home. And I come in the room and my girlfriend, she was working on the computer, she's just laid back. There's blood everywhere!" he says. "Come on, come on, come on! Come on now, hurry, please hurry! Please! I don't know what happened, I just went in the house. I just came through the door!"
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Old 08-16-2021, 09:56 AM   #23020 (permalink)
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Wow.
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