The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

[jwb]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Punching Nazis isn't going to stop fascism if the only resistance is people in the streets punching. If the far right is gaining political power while the left isn't then no amount of punching is going to save you. But if you punch a Proud Boy and that Proud Boy decides to stay home next time that's a small victory. And even if you're not winning the war then community defense can still save lives.

Like I don't even understand your greater point unless that point is just sneering at the left cause you're insecure about people thinking they're better than you. Do you think not punching Nazis will yield better results? Will the Nazis not getting punched realize it's best to sing kumbyaya and hold hands?

The logic of your first paragraph is precisely what I am calling into question. I don't think it actually serves as a deterant. People thrive on the violence.

In the lead up to Nazi Germany the brawls in the streets with communists was actually used as a recruitment tool for luring disaffected, directionless and patriotic former soldiers into the SA. Violence acts as more of a rallying cry than anything else, especially in unstable political environments

[The Batlord]

"People thrive on the violence" is just sort of a vague, useless statement. What people? All the people? Some people? Certain people? Do all people just inherently enjoy getting punched in the face? Cause if not then you need to inject some nuance. Just the slightest bit of nuance. Just anything that isn't thoughtless drivel.

Also, these modern losers aren't dead-eyed WW1 veterans. They work at Home Depot. They thrive on Chili's.

[jwb]

No, not all of the people. But a subset do. That's all it takes. You think all Germans were fighting in the streets of the Weimar Republic or it was just a sizable enough number of people to destabilize the fledgling democracy?

I'm not saying the situations are 1 to 1 either. It's ironically usually the people in the other side who make the WW2 analogy, like jadis alluded to. But either way I think it's a safe bet to say people aren't being moderated by violence towards their side. Especially when dealing with extremist elements in particular you are selecting for people who can use violence as a rallying cry and martyrdom as credibility.

And I'm pretty sure that a lot of the far right militia types are in fact ex military, similar to the Germany example. Of course under certain circumstances you yourself might even point out this threat in another context, but here you conveniently downplay it to try to win a cheap point. Because you actually don't have principles behind anything you are saying at this point.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by jwb

No, not all of the people. But a subset do. That's all it takes. You think all Germans were fighting in the streets of the Weimar Republic or it was just a sizable enough number of people to destabilize the fledgling democracy?

Yeah and a sizeable number of those people were WW1 vets unlike the losers in the Proud Boys or Patriot Front. Not to mention the Frei Corps who were given literal weapons of war by the state to fight the left. They had literal artillery to use in Berlin to blast holes in the city. The right now are far more punchable.

I'm not saying the situations are 1 to 1 either. It's ironically usually the people in the other side who make the WW2 analogy, like jadis alluded to. But either way I think it's a safe bet to say people aren't being moderated by violence towards their side. Especially when dealing with extremist elements in particular you are selecting for people who can use violence as a rallying cry and martyrdom as credibility.

You could say the same about Antifa street fighters except you oddly don't. For some reason it's only the far right who will be emboldened to violence through conflict.

And I'm pretty sure that a lot of the far right militia types are in fact ex military, similar to the Germany example. Of course under certain circumstances you yourself might even point out this threat in another context, but here you conveniently downplay it to try to win a cheap point. Because you actually don't have principles behind anything you are saying at this point.

No, idiot. Obviously ex-military extremists are a threat but to compare the relative handful of war on terror veterans to the millions of WW1 veterans is like comparing a candle to a stick of dynamite. Honestly you sound like either a moron or like you're weakly trying not to obviously root for far right terrorists.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Yeah and a sizeable number of those people were WW1 vets unlike the losers in the Proud Boys or Patriot Front. Not to mention the Frei Corps who were given literal weapons of war by the state to fight the left. They had literal artillery to use in Berlin to blast holes in the city. The right now are far more punchable.

it was a sizable segment of extremists who are inclined towards violence. I would argue a similar dynamic exists in the modern US, as much as you try to romanticize the common foot soldier of the SA as so much more competent than your average proud boy in terms of instigating political instability, they weren't.

You could say the same about Antifa street fighters except you oddly don't. For some reason it's only the far right who will be emboldened to violence through conflict.

maybe I didn't state it specifically but I do think the left is also capable of being called to arms. If they ever did get their **** together and do so they could also be a threat. So far the FBI watch list is rightfully dominated by right wingers.

No, idiot. Obviously ex-military extremists are a threat but to compare the relative handful of war on terror veterans to the millions of WW1 veterans is like comparing a candle to a stick of dynamite. Honestly you sound like either a moron or like you're weakly trying not to obviously root for far right terrorists.

I mean who exactly is it that is going to bring about this Trans genocide you keep insisting is on the horizon? You have to make a firm decision about the nature of the threat you're pointing to. How severe are we talking exactly? Somewhere between WW2 and Rwanda?

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by jwb

I mean who exactly is it that is going to bring about this Trans genocide you keep insisting is on the horizon? You have to make a firm decision about the nature of the threat you're pointing to. How severe are we talking exactly? Somewhere between WW2 and Rwanda?

Bitch the only thing I'm insisting on is that the right's rhetoric should be taken seriously and not be brushed aside as just culture war. Short term I'm concerned with copycat trans shootings, anti-trans legislation in red states, and even something crazy like a fertilizer bomb at a hospital that does gender affirming care or something.

Long term I can't predict anything with confidence but the right certainly want at the least for trans people to go back in the closet and be culturally invisible through both legal means (f.ex. through legal harassment of the parents of trans kids or outlawing genital surgery) and more violent intimidation.

The federal nature of the country makes me think the US would have to go through a literal civil war for, say, Texas to decide to go full Final Solution as the country burns, but if say another Katrina situation goes down and a part of the country becomes lawless for a period then I could see like a right wing militia moving into a place and trying to temporarily take over. It sort of happened already in Oregon in 2020 during the wildfires when militia ding dongs thought Antifa were setting the fires and set up checkpoints.

If something like that happened in a disaster area where the government had lost control I could see situations where a Proud Boy calls up his buddies to go lynch his trans neighbor and next thing you know a bunch of trans people are dead and nothing gets done about it and the "culture war" gets ratcheted up that much higher.

I'm not making predictions, I'm just taking the right at their word.

[Queen Boo]

States across the country are passing vehemently anti-trans bills, the most watched show on cable news right now is hosted by an unhinged psychopath who keeps screaming "WEIMAR!" every time he sees an LGBTQ person and Neo-Nazis are showing up with guns to every drag bar they can find but sure move along everyone nothing to worry about.

[Mindfulness]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZiTX7l1Jrc

102 days sober from weed now and just as I quit they start selling it at stores lol

[jwb]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Bitch the only thing I'm insisting on is that the right's rhetoric should be taken seriously and not be brushed aside as just culture war. Short term I'm concerned with copycat trans shootings, anti-trans legislation in red states, and even something crazy like a fertilizer bomb at a hospital that does gender affirming care or something.

Long term I can't predict anything with confidence but the right certainly want at the least for trans people to go back in the closet and be culturally invisible through both legal means (f.ex. through legal harassment of the parents of trans kids or outlawing genital surgery) and more violent intimidation.

The federal nature of the country makes me think the US would have to go through a literal civil war for, say, Texas to decide to go full Final Solution as the country burns, but if say another Katrina situation goes down and a part of the country becomes lawless for a period then I could see like a right wing militia moving into a place and trying to temporarily take over. It sort of happened already in Oregon in 2020 during the wildfires when militia ding dongs thought Antifa were setting the fires and set up checkpoints.

If something like that happened in a disaster area where the government had lost control I could see situations where a Proud Boy calls up his buddies to go lynch his trans neighbor and next thing you know a bunch of trans people are dead and nothing gets done about it and the "culture war" gets ratcheted up that much higher.

I'm not making predictions, I'm just taking the right at their word.

Right so maybe you missed it but that was sort of a rhetorical question to point out that you basically oscillate between on the one hand talking about the right wing in this country (and their militias etc) are the new face of evil, poised to possibly bring about the next genocide, and on the other hand when it is convenient you will downplay the same people as losers who work at chilis and can't do **** compared to the dead eyed german soldier of ww1 that you seemingly respect so much.

The irony is that for the point we were discussing, it's not so directly relevant how combat ready the right wing militias are. Because if we are using the Germany example, they didn't take over by force. But the SA was a massive recruitment tool that helped them build the political movement they needed to take over.

But reading your post it sounds like you are basically saying you think there could be more shootings etc and legislation. I don't doubt that could easily happen. I don't think that is worthy of being called a genocide. The question is do you actually think those things will lead to something more closely resembling an actual genocide? It sounds like based on your post you are saying maybe it would happen in the aftermath of complete destabilization after some sort of natural disaster. Which is like a fringe sort of worst case scenario.

See, my whole thing is when people call it a genocide i actually don't even know to what extent they believe it. I feel like it's mostly just a poor rhetorical tactic.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by Queen Boo

States across the country are passing vehemently anti-trans bills, the most watched show on cable news right now is hosted by an unhinged psychopath who keeps screaming "WEIMAR!" every time he sees an LGBTQ person and Neo-Nazis are showing up with guns to every drag bar they can find but sure move along everyone nothing to worry about.

Yes because the only two options are genocide or nothing to see here.