The public school district in Japan I taught in provides fish, vegetables including tofu, a bit of fruit, and a carton of milk to every student everyday.

Look, the schools are taking the kids by force. People are brainwashed into believing it’s a privilege but even if you consider it a privilege it’s not one you can opt out of.

If the schools are going to kidnap or arrest (or whatever you want to call it) every kid in the country five times a week for 7.5 hours obviously it’s on the schools to feed the kids. And not only do they very often fail to provide proper nutrition but many schools also fail to provide access to water at anytime, regular access to toilets, fresh air and exercise, and safety from psychological and physical abuse up to literally being shot dead on the premises.

Well, most Western governments make education compulsory to reduce illiteracy and child exploitation. Surely that's a worthy goal?

Mexico is a big, disorganised place where laws are often ignored with impunity and it's not so strange to see kids who should be at school begging at traffic lights, etc. In rural areas, their parents sometimes put them to the fields:-



Children are extremely vulnerable and being in school, I would say, gives them a relatively safe environment. As well as teaching them to read and count, compulsory schooling will prob prevent them from being available for various alternative occupations, as above or worse. Maybe there are failings in various schools, but they are outweighed by the benefits imo.

* Parents are encouraged to see that basic schooling is to their children's long-term advantage* - ftfy, OH ;)

American teenagers are about three times as likely to kill themselves as Mexican teenagers.

I can’t prove a causal relationship but I believe the inherently abusive nature of compulsory education is the top reason American kids off themselves.

RapeDonalds

4-year-old allegedly raped in Oklahoma McDonald's bathroom, police investigating

In the US, it's compulsory for your 10 year old to go to school.

In Latin America, it's compulsory for your 10 year old to join MS13 or whatever other gang controls your neighborhood.

Talk about white privilege. Literally whining about living in a country that sends their kids to school.

:andherewego:

Our education system left you drug addicted, homeless, and still inclined to defend it. This is a perfect example of how deeply brainwashed Americans are.

personal attacks will not be tolerated

this is the only warning i am giving

Please Don't. I can handle this.

the school system left me homeless and drug addicted, huh?

Funny how you deduced that without knowing the first thing about what schools I went to, what my up bringing was like, etc. Probably the same kind of research you put into your thesis that American kids are killing themselves more than Mexicans cause they have to go to school.

Bottom line is I actually grew up in a poor, gang ridden neighborhood where they finally set up a bunch of magnet programs to help the youth yet so few of the neighborhood kids wanted to participate that they started having to bus kids in from the suburbs to fill the magnet programs. Kids in the hood were typically there for social reasons and to deal drugs and **** like that.

I was one of the many kids who were actually districted to this school who didn't care about the magnet programs. I skated my way through school, went on to work late end jobs and supplement my income by dealing drugs and engaging in other petty crime.

Eventually I decided to go back to college and for a while I made it work, but eventually I fell off and for a factory job and started using and drinking too excess, wherebyi finally spiralled out of control and wound up homeless.

None of it had to do with my school. I had plenty of opportunities I never ceased. And many more than I would have if I grew up a lower class kid in Mexico. I know people growing up who specifically fled that life.

I learned they cause huge problems by forcing kids to keep bad company and nothing is taught.

They do tons of harm and almost nothing good. Plenty of otherwise emotionally adjusted kids come out of it utterly destroyed. I know that.

You're just willingly ignoring the positives. A lot of kids are taught quite a bit in school.

But let's just cut through the bull**** and ask what your alternative is?

Also I edited so check the edit to see if there's anything else you would respond to

John Taylor Gatto pretty much nailed it.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbing_Us_Down

Lol... That's great and all but... Any chance of a quick version for those of us not dedicated enough to read a book to win an online argument?

Basic math and reading skills only take about 3 years to learn. After that you’re set to learn more in that arena if you choose. So outside of that it’s better to let children decide for themselves. Stealing their autonomy with forced schooling hinders their education by denying their curiosity and sense of ownership with the process.

obviously the current system is ineffective and inefficient, but children do developmentally benefit from routine and structure and the social learning that school provides. and we can't ignore the fact that having children in school keeps parents working, if we are assuming capitalistic priorities aren't going to change anytime soon. i think in an ideal world around 6th grade children would enter a charter school style group-learning environment where the curriculum is self lead and interest based.

So you would want like 3 years of forced education... Then beyond that maybe they go to trade school or maybe they continue their education to go to uni? Almost sounds like a republicans wet dream

No. I’d completely abolish public schools. And money.

And no idea in how you'd replace the govt based infrastructure for schooling? Or kids would just grow up without any education instead?

I don’t think there’s any evidence of that. I think they suffer under the stifling conditions of stupid routines that were originally designed for factories and prisons.

No education is better than the anti-education brainwashing bull**** they get now.

Yes, no formal education would be a vast improvement.

It’s school where we learn to be sheep.

Btw schooling does not equal education.

i mean i know they don't really mean anything but i have a couple degrees that say otherwise, at least until puberty

it's straight up brain science

so in other words, yes you would rather let America's children grow up with no formal education. And that's your "fix" to the set backs of public school. That's hilarious bro.

I agree about your degrees.

Links to the science?

And if structure even is beneficial link to the science that schools actually provide that kind of structure?

My bottom line has always been abolish public school. It’s a cornerstone of anarchism.

man it's summer break don't make me write an essay

in essence in early childhood the structure and routine of a school day eliminates other stressors and allows for children to focus on other areas of development. the predictability gives them a sense of security.

again, i'm talking early childhood. not middle or high school where you have experience.

anarchy is gay

Reported

If they did, would that influence your opinion?

I never agreed not to use the G word, you filthy A

Your thesis that schools actually provide that structure, assuming it’s even beneficial, is going to be impossible to prove.

And I know a lot about what’s really going on in grades 1-3. I’m still certified in elementary ed.

As it works now third grade standardized testing is the most crucial benchmark outside of high school graduation rates. So we’re talking about retaining first and second graders which is emotionally devastating and giving them a test they’re taught to believe is very high stakes. 30 years ago students didn’t take a test with such heavy emphasis until the SAT/ACT.

So is it your ideal school that’s so psychologically positive or does it really exist?

Hint: it doesn’t exist.

That’s a great question.

The answer is no. Compulsory education is immoral. That’s the real crux of my beef with it. Good call.

OH found some flaws in the education system. I suppose that means we better just scrap it all, man. Then we'll be more equipped to take on THE MAN, man.

= "I will not believe any evidence provided to me"

How does it feel to be a Christian?

That’s like 70% fair. The anarchist stuff can be kind of evangelical.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-49042372

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gpf6ciwgXm...erbs-siege.jpg

I still stand with Serbia!

Cowardice.

Why don't you watch that Christchurch video again and see how you feel.

As engineer Mindfulness must know, when you have more than one error, if you are lucky, the two errors may cancel each other out. Other times, both errors are in the same "direction" and you get a cumulative error that is more serious than either of the individual errors.

^ I think your post has a cumulative error, OH. "Brainwashing" exaggerates the effect of formal schooling, and "sheep" underestimates the resilience of mind that many of us are born with.

If schoolchildren were brainwashed, then surely there'd never be a discipline problem in a classroom. Truancy, disorder and bullying all indicate that any attempt at brainwashing has clearly failed.
And if schooling turns children into sheep, well, who amongst us has not been to school? Are we, yourself included, sheep? Or did we instead take what was useful to us from our school years, and use it as we chose outside the school environment? That's what me and my friends did every day after class: ridiculing teachers and rules, but using techniques like analysis and writing to express opinions of our own.