WendyCal

Wow. Sort of like i did.

SOURCES,

or it's made-up fiction.

Oh, yeah. Pay back is a witch.

WendyCal

Jibber, pay back IS a witch, but it doesn't matter. Where you really thought you needed sources, i think that if i need them, i'll find them.

Anyway, getting ready to go out to the ranch for my Mom's Happy Birth Today, which really isn't until Moan-day, but...

And Happy Birthday, coming up, to you, Jib!

Son of JayJamJah

It doesn't matter if you endorse it, it's reality and it has to be dealt with in reality. It's about moving forward from the past right or wrong and trying to do what's best in the present for the future. I don't care if it's a warranted war by ant legal, moral or ethical standards (make no assumptions based on this statement's liberal use of language), I know what we are doing is the right thing and that's enough for me. I recognize America as the good guys on this one and therefore am going to root for them. I am cynical about the governments aptitude not it's intentions. My mind changes constantly on subjects because circumstances are ever evolving, you don't need to argue just offer your perspective and any analysis of mine you have.

War always sucks because the loss of innocent lives sucks death sucks and death is scary. War is a means only acceptable after reason, rational and discussion have been exhausted. The bottom line about the Wars justification is this. The President approved it, Congress approved it, Intelligence approved it, The American Public approved of it. Knowing what we know now you'd be a fool to say it's justified based on the merits presented to the public but that was never an option. We'd didn't know what we know now then.

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If you're posting in the music forums make sure to be thoughtful and expressive, if you're posting in the lounge ask yourself "is this something that adds to the conversation?" It's important to remember that a lot of people use each thread. You're probably not as funny or clever as you think, I know I'm not.

My Van Morrison Discography Thread

Predator

Are you saying then that Kurds don't matter? They were staging a revolt for years and even made several attempts. Look at Halabja and why it happened. There were attempts made on the life of the tyrannical dictator which prompted the Iraqi government to launch a chemical weapons attack against an entire town. Would you revolt against that? Risk everyone you know being gassed? Hell, why not just hide and hope that your father and brother aren't taken and killed next?

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jibber

Oh shut the **** up. Do you want me to list sources as to why I say the sky is blue and the grass is green? Because the report by CIA that Hussein had no ties to Al-Queda operations is such old and established news that anyone with even a slight degree of intelligence and information on the matter would have known it to be fact. Here's your f*cking sources.

Now go read them, and take your time and do it carefully since I don't want to have to hand feed you anything else tonight.

Washington File: No link between Saddam and al-Qaeda

AFP: No link between Saddam and Al-Qaeda: Pentagon study

CBC news, American Free Press, and EVERY OTHER MAJOR NEWS STATION AND NEWSPAPER IN NORTH AMERICA REPORTED THIS. God you're dumb.

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What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
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Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

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jibber

No, you completely misunderstood my post. I was refuting wendycals claim that everyone in Iraq really wanted to revolt, but because the poor peasants had nothing but shovels to fight with, they couldnt. So I used the example of the kurds to say that the rest of the iraqi citizens certainly had the means, what they lacked was the desire.

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

The Unfan

Can you provide sources for this outlandish claim? Claiming every other major news source did is a pretty tall claim. I want evidence!

jibber

hahahaha. it seems as though we have a temporary truce going on.

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

lucifer_sam

You misunderstand me. I am by no means a pacifist. I fully support the war in Afghanistan (my father has been there four times with the Army Corps of Engineers). At first I admittedly didn't understand the circumstances before the war in Iraq, but I've come to terms since then and understand now that it should never have been fought in the first place.

Americans were guilted into going into Iraq. The mantra of the time was patriotism, and whenever someone questioned our motives, the response came out the same: 9-11. In reality, there wasn't any appreciable evidence of Iraq harboring any more danger than you might find at a small armory. Our borders are too well protected to allow for anything more than domestic terrorism. In addition, we were misled by falsified intelligence reports of weapons of mass destruction. The short answer: the American people were emotionally and mentally belittled, and a $1,900,000,000,000 debt was our reward.

I'm not trying to deride your intelligence, JJ. I just always thought our convictions clicked on more than a few levels and am henceforth disappointed that you aren't my biological father.

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Predator

Intelligence changes. Fact is that evidence pointed to a link between Al-Qaeda and Saddam. Evidence pointed to WMDs and chemical weapons in Iraq. Congress saw the evidence and agreed with the findings. Intelligence is cloudy at best when you can't get people on the ground to find the truth. Weapons inspectors were constantly kicked out and not allowed to do their job. At the time it made sense that he had something to hide. Now we "know" that he was just being a moody ******* about it.

Now my opinion on the matter. Initial battle plans showed 4ID staging to the north and pushing through to Mosul and Kirkuk and ending up in Baghdad. 3ID was to stage in Kuwait and push north into Baghdad. Plans changed and 4ID had no choice but to follow 3ID out of Kuwait. Why the last minute change of plans? My opinion only here. Who is going to say "no, I don't think we need any more free bombs".

Of course, with the United States in control of Iraq and Afghanistan, Iran is sure in a tight spot.

Gotcha, sorry for jumping at that one.

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