The Official Barack Obama Thread (country, dance, American, quotes)

[BoopieJones]

I was walking in DC on thursday or friday (before he was in chicago) and they cleared the streets, 10 police on motorcycles flew by at fixed intervals then a few cop cars and limos. I think Obama was in one of them. . .pretty cool eh?

[Yukon Cornelius]

Obama smokes... Wonder if he buys his cigs at walmart??

[sleepy jack]

And you say I don't understand economics. Hyperinflation isn't an issue in the slightest and the stimulus money is being borrowed; not printed. I don't know what the fuck is up with your chart seeing as it isn't even accurate, speaking both of modern times and past times.

[sleepy jack]

Then why has the chart been going progressively upwards when, in fact, there's been several deflationary periods (after 9/11 was a big one, it was a larger dip than we ever had in the nineties...which is odd considering that chart shows we've been making a steady progression upwards) and it doesn't even show those. I do question the validity of that chart because (ignoring the fact it's from a site that wants you to sell them your gold and silver NOW NOW NOW) it isn't accurate when you cross reference it with charts from sites that end in .gov (which I'd consider legitimate).

It's incredibly unlikely that the rest of the world will stop buying bonds from the US. We are never going to pay off all our debt of course but one simple fact you're ignoring is that every industrial nation has a large amount of debt (roughly similar to the amount they export in fact.) Admittedly, the Iraq War and Greenspan's Y2K housing bubble drove ours to abnormal amounts but the Republican alternative to this was tax cuts (which also amass a larger amount of debt overtime than the Democrats stimulus package) and the idea behind the stimulus package once our economy comes back (and the assumption is that this stimulus package will do so and seeing as it will actually create millions of new jobs and so on and encourage people to start buying again there's no reason to believe the economy will get worse) we can start paying off our debts and we have decades to do it.

Here's why it's ironic for you to criticize me for not understanding "basic economics." You're assuming that printing money (which were not doing as long as the rest of the world buys our bonds) decreases the actual wealth of a country, it doesn't. Does it devalue the currency? Yes but that's a very relative thing ... because there's more currency to make up for it and the actual wealth of a nation, in both Adam Smith terms and Mercantilism terms hasn't changed at all. It stills the same. It's stupid to worry about, especially considering our inflation rate is only at 7%. We're not Zimbabwe and the government isn't full of idiots who are going to print off a trillion dollar bill just for shits and giggles.

[sleepy jack]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

look closer.

St. Louis Fed: Monetary Base

I have; the dips aren't dramatic enough as there hasn't been that steady of a progression upwards (see the dip after 9/11 was a bigger deflationary period than any we'd experience in the nineties why is it still higher? It makes no sense there was no dramatic inflationary climb as goldandsilver makes their out to be. My source funnily was this.)

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

hah! Chinese exports have fallen 18% in the past year; imports have fallen 43%. Japanese exports declined by 35% and their industrial production plunged by nearly 10%. over twenty million Chinese workers so far have lost their jobs and many analysts warn that they very well may see as many as fifty million more lost jobs. surely one couldn't veritably be so naive as to believe that the rest of the world is going to (or is even currently of the ability to) persist financing America's consumption? China has already dumped nearly two hundred billion dollars in U.S. Treasuries over the past four months. the game's over.

The problem with this is...they are going to fund it! It's good for the countries to buy these bonds, particularity China, as purchasing treasury securities allows them to regulate the yuan and to produce so many cheap things that the world loves to purchase (so as you can see them funding this is only going to increase their exports.)

You've already acknowledged that the United States is just going to borrow deeper into debt and now you're turning around saying they're going to print off a bunch of money and then saying the rest of the world isn't in the position to buy our bonds (even though...they are?) Maybe you need to do some soul searching on this issue.

[sleepy jack]

American's prominent creditors will buy our bonds because it's beneficial to them.

[sleepy jack]

Bonds are all traded on secondary markets, meaning that whoever we sell them to initially will move it around for short term gain but eventually give it to a country like China or Japan who is already very wealthy off of American debt. Which isn't a bad thing, I already explained how these bonds can actually be beneficial to the countries were most deeply in debt to. They wouldn't continue buying bonds just to be nice you know.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Someone sent the President some hiv infected blood.... Some ppl are just stupid. Did anyone hear about the new health care plan? sounds horrible...

[sleepy jack]

Yeah making health care cheaper and more accessible, bloody horrible idea.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

it might not be such a potentially disastrous idea if it were only that simple. there's a little more to it than a light left-right wave of the magic Obama wand and OH HEY EVERYTHING IS AWESOME NOW, contrary to popular belief.

i just said his plan sucks... if thats change then im out