Watch this.. (house, American, effect, bling, shows)

SATCHMO · 03-30-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toretorden

What is africon? What is fairness doc? What's up with the national civilian army? You wrote many words, Yukon, but I'm having a hard time understanding all of it. I think you should try and explain it to those not from America. We don't know about all the changes you are going through.

Well, to be honest I'm American and I watched the movie and I was rather confused by yukon's post.

sleepy jack · 03-30-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

Here is my Thesis for you sleepy...

The first and most obvious point...

Obama is the Change that Americans needed. With promises of hope, jobs, troops coming home, not to mention keeping lobbyist and donors out of his administration etc... That's great but if you look at the things he has done thus far its completely opposite.

Every politician pushes their rhetoric to impossible highs and unrealistic standards. It's how you get elected. People love Obama because he presents this image of a blank slate Democrat who is the anti-Bush and Bush was a symbol of negativity. Politics isn't nearly as complex as people seem to think.

Also he has inspired many Americans and made them hope, so he did come true on that promise (which is a difficult one to make because you can't force it.) His economic action has ultimately been the stimulus package, you can't judge whether or not he's created jobs yet. Silly criticism.

And now we get to a central theme through this argument sources sources sources! What lobbyists and donors has he appointed?

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Basically he was the perfect fit in a time of need, I agreed originally, but now see that I just like most of America was duped by false promises. If you didnt like bush your going to Hate Obama.. Ill tell you what if you kick me out over this thread and you start realizing that you cant wait for someone else in the white house in about 3 years then I feel that should be my ticket back not that it means that much to me I think it would just be nice to say I told you so.

The other side to the coin is that everything is getting better...

Yeah but you also think the world is going to end in 2012 so why does it matter?

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As we bail all these companies out that are falling down Americas debt gets larger, and the banking elite get richer.

The other point was that the economic recession is obviously done intentionally, this obviously not the first. You see with the economy at its peak everyone has everything they could possibly want, when things change such as fuel prices, which had no reason to go up it makes everything more expensive. Food, gas, natural gas, plastics, automobiles... Then what happens??Standards change ppl cant afford what they have anymore and then Kaboom .. Now you have people taking out loans even though they cant afford to pay them back, gas prices are worth more that a gallon of milk so people cant afford to drive there vehicles anymore, now they cant purchase vehicles either car companies going down... These loans most took out were to avoid bankruptcy, they got loans while there credit score sub par, and some even good and it only jammed them farther into debt and if the people cant afford to pay the bank back the bank goes down... then you have to line the pockets of the banking elite so they can buy up more banks so on and so forth.

Of course this was intentional; but it has more to do with deregulation, bad policies and bad planning than some plan conducted by a banking elite in hopes they'd get government bail outs someday to cover their asses for all the money they originally had but lost (which makes perfect sense doesn't it? Who doesn't love a roundabout method of getting wealth!) And now I'm going to repeat my shout of sources sources sources! Because if you're going to lie blame on some hidden elite group you should first prove their existence outside this "documentary" and then explain how they managed to pull all this off and more importantly why they pulled it off.

Also since you're making a claim that goes directly against he known history of the economic crisis you might want to disprove what has been reported for the last ten years in regards to the economy. I suggest you go back and look at some Depression-era legislation and if it's still enact today, then examine what all Clinton/Greenspan did and then Bush and also look at each of the banks and how they've failed and see if they really did all those stupid things like give out bad loans or it's just a big bad lie constructed by Obama.

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Not to mention the cost of war, but he we were promised the troops would come home, I guess that means send 30000 more over there and double our presence, to only further line the pockets of the greedy.

Iraq is about imperialism. It's that simple; no secret banker is making money off it. This war, which has been ridiculously expensive, has helped bring us into the economic crisis were in. It's been losing money since day one. In fact it's silly you even knowledge an economic crisis exists and then turn around state that there's actually been big profit in Iraq. The only argument there has to do with oil - which is an entirely different subject unrelated to Obama (who can't be blamed for the situation were in.)

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Point 3
Right now if you read the current events, you will notice that gitmo is going to be shut down that was a promise as it was not civil. However it gets worse, now you just have different locations were these ppl will be tortured and that's all good with you know who. It was quoted that is was essential to have such facilities.

It isn't okay with you know who. Obama's specifically banned waterboarding, the preferred method of torture by the Bush administration. He also stated the United States doesn't torture. By closing Guantanamo Bay he's allowing the justice system to handle them - something Bush wouldn't do. Bush had them in legal limbo where we could ultimately do whatever we want with them and ignore any international agreement and the Geneva conventions all we want.

Obama isn't shipping them off to different camps (sources and locations.) That wouldn't work now anyway seeing as groups like the Red Cross and various humanitarian groups are now far too tangled into the treatment of the prisoners to allow that sort of thing.

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Point 4..
The need for a civilian army.. Whats wrong with the national reserve and the Coast Guard?? Im in one of them wont tell you which that's besides the point, and thanks for my paycheck sucker. Either way the need for a civilian army?? The points are valid, as you and I both know and can both agree that we will never really know the bigger picture until it smacks us in the face. Think about this, around the US right now they are strengthening prisons and fema is building camps all over the country?? I want to know why? And how come we need 20000 or so army men patroling the us?? Because ppl need protection? Nah we all have guns.. But not for long well nothing worth shooting at anyone... Its obvious, because once people start to see the belly of the beast its going to be anarchy in the us... Worst than watts around this mother Fugger... How about you? what will you do? Hell I might be having to push you along if you get out of hand who knows DOD dir 1404.10 that would be obamas personal million strong army notice the directive states that they would stay away from the office work and be a soldier, that would be all his, and if you look at it they are there to flock the anarchists who will protest the hell out of this once the see it, you should be able to choose unless you are in a draft which we are not, but i guess its cool to enslave ourselfs ... You by the way have yet to state where you are from... So pardon me if you are form somewhere other than the US.

Obama isn't building a civilian army. That quote was taken so horribly out of context I'm amazed anyone has taken this "documentary" seriously. He was talking about expanding groups like the Peace Corps; it was a call for an era of voluntarism and community service. It was no gestapo. Here is the full context of the quote so everyone can this lie in all its glory.

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Originally Posted by Barack Obama

As president I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots [from 75,000] and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals, like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their effort connected to a common purpose.

People of all ages, stations and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem – they are the answer. So we are going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We'll call on Americans to join an energy corps, to conduct renewable energy and environmental clean-up projects in their neighborhoods all across the country.

We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, and to be there for our military families. And we're going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy. We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set.

We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. We need to use technology to connect people to service. We'll expand USA Freedom Corps to create online networks where American can browse opportunities to volunteer. You'll be able to search by category, time commitment and skill sets. You'll be able to rate service opportunities, build service networks, and create your own service pages to track your hours and activities.

This will empower more Americans to craft their own service agenda and make their own change from the bottom up.

As far as the FEMA detainment camps go...I don't know where this hoax came from. I know it's loosely rooted in something Ashcroft either did or tried to do but it isn't something that has anything to do with Obama (and I don't believe it had anything to do with FEMA either.) Again, source something factual and legitimate on this issue because there's nothing but sketchy conspiracy theorists backing that up.

sleepy jack · 03-30-2009, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

5. Don't mind me on this one but if there are two sides to the coin should you ban me for having different feelings than you?? Food for thought

He can't ban your thoughts; that's just impossible. Accusing him of trying to do that is just being silly. As he himself said; he isn't the Messiah. He has no magic powers. He is just a charismatic leader.

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6. Before long We wont be alble to discuss these things because the "fairness doc" is about to limit the infomation availible to you via the mass media. That right there should piss you off. You will see this happen not just to the internet, but any form of media.

The Fairness Doctrine isn't some brand new plan that Obama cooked up and it isn't all that mysterious, in fact we had it up until the late eighties. The Fairness doctrine is simply a policy that says news must be presented in an objective and honest manner as opposed to a propagandist and partisan manner.

The Democrats and by extension Obama, haven't even been pushing it anyway. All the talk of it came from conservative pundits like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity who were trying to twist the policy for what it really was. Admittedly it's understandable; they wouldn't be allowed to do things like call Obama a Communist, refer to him as a negro or compare him to Hitler.

Anyway your entire explanation of the Fairness doctrine is a lie and shows your own ignorance. It doesn't even apply to citizen's speeches laws or the availability of information. It only applies to how the major media presents that information.

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7. Dictation of health Care.
By pushing federal funded health care you will not longer have the options that you used to. You can look at it as a good thing if you want but how can you regulate health care... This will make jobs go straight to hell, ... And by the way my health care when i say my i mean mine not my depns.. SUCKS. Im talking needles breaking off into ppls arms for just a simple hiv test... Multiple stabs to hit the sweet spot since there education on heath care is the same as the sound a fart makes...

Almost of all this makes absolutely no sense. For one jobs are going to hell because the system of health care in the United States is broken and corporations, small and big, are being weighed down by having to supply their workers with health care and the vast majority of citizens can't afford it. Every other industrialized nation in the world has universal health care and they manage to regulate it fine (in fact your first three sentences or so are basically disproved by this point.) Also you still have the same options you use to. You can pretend you don't have health care and avoid going to the hospital when you're sick since this system is so corrupt.

I'd also like to add many people voted for Obama and support the Democratic party purely because of their stance on health care reform and more importantly a more universal system. It's one of their key party platforms and is largely why I lean towards the way the Democrats govern as opposed to the Republicans.

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8.Africon??
Why would we need that.. I say this assuming you have heard of that.. To take over the resources FROM EVERYONE THERE.. I will finish tomorrow i have to go to bed.... etc btw

We've already taken over the resources from EVERYONE THERE. Obama didn't colonize Africa and enslave it's people, no matter what you try and insinuate.

Now onto a little bit of advice. You need to figure out what the exact thesis of the movie is. I only watched about ten minutes of it and read some things on it and even I realize that the thesis has more to do with Obama being a puppet than the anti-Christ and doer of all evil. For one there is no conspiracy theorist cynical enough to try and convince you that Obama has been active in politics long enough or that he's influential enough to have brought these problems (some of them five years coming, some of them thirty) upon America. However when you read your post...it's not clear what you're trying to argue.

I'd also encourage you to source outrageous claims you may even find this movie is deliberately misleading. Again I only saw ten minutes but in those ten minutes I spotted several distorted points and lies. Right off the bat they started talking about a Civilian National Security Force as if it was a call to create a secret police. Obama was talking about funding and having just as much activity in groups like the Peace Corps (who are no secret police) as in the army! It was a call to be a positive force in your community and in the world and finding out about that speech actually made me think more of Obama's approach to foreign policy then I did prior to this (though I still don't think much of it; it was better than McCain's though.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by toretorden

What is africon? What is fairness doc? What's up with the national civilian army? You wrote many words, Yukon, but I'm having a hard time understanding all of it. I think you should try and explain it to those not from America. We don't know about all the changes you are going through.

My last two posts before this were actually jokes, but I guess they flew under the radar.

I don't know what Africon is either but the Fairness Doctrine is summarized nicely by wikipedia: Fairness Doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia As you can see it's an old policy (which the American Democrats haven't really pushed despite the Republican media, who are guys like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly, talking about it obsessively) which doesn't really match Yukon's incoherent...thing on it.

Fruitonica · 03-30-2009, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

I personally believe that its futile to debate with anyone hasn't or wont watch this documentary. I think that's Yukon's main error in this. Yet on the other hand Yukon did start this thread with the stipulation that no one should post without first watching it yet that's what everyone did! I'm the only one besides Yukon that watched the film and I'm the only one besides him who believes it.

Its not a matter of Yukon being gullible or a conspiracy theorist; their not his ideas there the ideas of a well documented film with facts that are backed up by credible sources. If you'd prefer not to alter your paradigm of the reality of the political and economic systems of the country don't watch the film and don't post in a thread that tells you not to if you havent.

No, I think it's pretty fair for people to want to voice their opinion on a matter without sitting through a 2 hour video. Especially when posted by Yukon, who has pretty much been dismissed as an idiot the by the hive mind of music banter. Without being petty, someone with an eight year old's grasp of mathematics is not someone whose political opinion I respect.

People repeatedly asked him to present the film's argument in a concise form, and to his credit he did. Sleepy Jack humoured him with a legitimate rebuttal, and he gets to try again.

Yukon Cornelius · 03-30-2009, 06:25 AM

I was half asleep when I wrote this so you have to give me a chance...

Yes this video was to show you that he is not worth getting all excited over, He follows all the same plans as Bush... And its funny to how silly people got over him.

either way I will explain better later.

SATCHMO · 03-30-2009, 06:41 AM

That's fair, but I do have to say that Yukon's synopsis of the film had little to nothing to do with the video and I feel he ignored most of its central arguments. What he did choose to highlight made no sense or wasn't even a part of the video. I would go through the process, but I feel I have wisdom and intelligence enough to choose my battles, and I sincerely do hope that I am just buying into a load of rubbish.

Yukon Cornelius · 03-30-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

That's fair, but I do have to say that Yukon's synopsis of the film had little to nothing to do with the video and I feel he ignored most of its central arguments. What he did choose to highlight made no sense or wasn't even a part of the video. I would go through the process, but I feel I have wisdom and intelligence enough to choose my battles, and I sincerely do hope that I am just buying into a load of rubbish.

I apologize for my disoreinted order with the events in this film. I was tired as hell.

This is to sleepy... I was not talking about Obama banning my thoughts... I was talking about you..

Don't mind me on this one but if there are two sides to the coin should you ban me for having different feelings than you?? Food for thought

He can't ban your thoughts; that's just impossible. Accusing him of trying to do that is just being silly. As he himself said; he isn't the Messiah. He has no magic powers. He is just a charismatic leader.

sleepy jack · 03-30-2009, 01:16 PM

I never even implied I was going to ban your thoughts. I only stated that you're either going to abide by the rules and standards of this forum or I'm going to start treating all your posts as spam. Post your rebuttal.

Yukon Cornelius · 03-30-2009, 06:09 PM

Sleepy...

Thomas Jefferson wrote..

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties then standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

Why such a strong statement? Because it is absolutely true.
The Banking elite will have duped us all...

Until someone can prove me wrong which by the way is impossible to do I will remain in this state of mind though not loosing sleep...

These people will squeeze the life out of all of us, take our money and security its only obvious that its happening now and will continue to happen. Then they will provide you with the basic essentials (starting with your health care) then make you believe everything if affordable until your choices are reduced into their plan. They don't care about you!! These are the people funded our Brand new presidents Campaign.

Our tax dollars are not being used for bail outs. The Federal Reserve (this law evading privately owned company) printed and gave it to banks. Guess who owns 80% of AIG now??

These smaller banks were taken under deliberately on loose very loose loans... A man panhandling one day could go buy a house the next (exaggerated but really) Who does that anyway NOBODY .. The problem is they weren't bums when they originally got the loan .. They were reduced into bums when everything started to make less sense. Blame the Chevy Yukon all you want but this was not the reason. It was a design not a problem. Now they will help them with there dues and interest in mind until there monopoly is complete...

"I know how hard it is to be seen helping out banks right now", "Especially when everyone is suffering in part for their bad decisions," " I know I get it"
B. Obama

sleepy jack · 03-30-2009, 06:26 PM

Let us examine one particular statement here:

Quote:

Until someone can prove me wrong which by the way is impossible to do I will remain in this state of mind though not loosing sleep...

I'm assuming a grammatically proper and coherent translation which say something to the effect of: "Until someone can prove me wrong I will remain in this paranoid state of mind. I am not losing sleep over it though. It is impossible to prove me wrong." Your ability to sleep, if you have firm conviction in this conspiracy theory, shows how strongly you actually believe in this. Maybe you don't have the intelligence to grasp how horrifying this is (since you don't have the intelligence to critically examine the situation or offer any counter to arguments to all the counter points I made to your arguments...which were all incoherent.) If the world was ruled by a banking elite you would be nothing but a pawn in someone else's game. Meaning everything from what you post on the internet to what house you live in in as controlled contrivance. If this idea doesn't even stir enough passion in you to lose some sleep over it - and the extent of your actions has been arguing on an internet forum - then do you really believe in it? Your lack of conviction says everything that needs to be said.

Now from a technical perspective it is impossible to prove your claims wrong because they're unsubstantiated; meaning there's nothing there to disprove. I asked you to provide sources. You provide a Thomas Jefferson quote then misinterpreted it because the government and banking institutions are not one, nor do the banking institutions control currency (ultimately what Jefferson describes is the Federal Reserve's job.) Do the financial institutions have too much economic influence? Absolutely - but that is capitalism for you.

Now before you even comment on the Federal Reserve you need to read the Federal Reserve act and understand how it operates. It isn't a privately owned law evading companies, it's a quasi-public system that is ultimately held accountable by the government and by extension the people (this is a democracy.) Just because Americans are too fat and lazy to examine what the Federal Reserve does and how it has been operating doesn't mean it's been hidden from view. We all knew there was a bubble in the housing market; Greenspan even stated he felt every American having a home was worth any slight economic problems in the future.

There has been no hidden plot to overthrow the economy. There has been a build up to this downturn since the days of Thatcher and Reagan and the policy of major world leaders since then have, for the most part, done nothing to prevent this crisis. You can see all the pieces in the policies of Prime Ministers, Parliaments, Presidents and Congress - not in the hidden agenda of some fictitious banking elites.

Now to once again get to your posting style. You didn't even try and argue any of the points I made nor did you provide any sources. I told you if you wanted to keep posting in here you would abide by basic rules of debate. I am being lenient in this and I'm not holding you to very high standards however I expect you to to at least be able to preform basic argument tasks that your average eleven year old could do.

When I asked you for a rebuttal I meant that you needed to counter my arguments which were counting all your original points. You didn't do this; in fact you ignored my entire post and started talking about a Thomas Jefferson quote. I asked for you to provide sources for your absurd claims. You didn't do this either. I'm not doing this to be condescending; I'm trying to help you. Right now you look like a rambling idiot and a liar (I pointed out this flat out lie you told and you ignored that as well. Though in your defense, though this only shows how critical your mind is, you based this false opinion off what the documentary espoused.) If you're not going to argue with credibility and coherency then you're not going to post in here. You have yet to offer any evidence that this banking elite exists, what their manifesto of sorts is, or explain how they've had global control. If you're not going to do that stop wasting my time, your time and every else in this section of the board's time.

03-30-2009, 06:25 AM	#65 (permalink)
Yukon Cornelius Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 625	I was half asleep when I wrote this so you have to give me a chance... Yes this video was to show you that he is not worth getting all excited over, He follows all the same plans as Bush... And its funny to how silly people got over him. either way I will explain better later. __________________ Attempting to find a cure for Stupid...

03-30-2009, 06:09 PM	#69 (permalink)
Yukon Cornelius Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 625	Sleepy... Thomas Jefferson wrote.. "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties then standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802) Why such a strong statement? Because it is absolutely true. The Banking elite will have duped us all... Until someone can prove me wrong which by the way is impossible to do I will remain in this state of mind though not loosing sleep... These people will squeeze the life out of all of us, take our money and security its only obvious that its happening now and will continue to happen. Then they will provide you with the basic essentials (starting with your health care) then make you believe everything if affordable until your choices are reduced into their plan. They don't care about you!! These are the people funded our Brand new presidents Campaign. Our tax dollars are not being used for bail outs. The Federal Reserve (this law evading privately owned company) printed and gave it to banks. Guess who owns 80% of AIG now?? These smaller banks were taken under deliberately on loose very loose loans... A man panhandling one day could go buy a house the next (exaggerated but really) Who does that anyway NOBODY .. The problem is they weren't bums when they originally got the loan .. They were reduced into bums when everything started to make less sense. Blame the Chevy Yukon all you want but this was not the reason. It was a design not a *problem*. Now they will help them with there dues and interest in mind until there monopoly is complete... "I know how hard it is to be seen helping out banks right now", "Especially when everyone is suffering in part for their bad decisions," " I know I get it" B. Obama __________________ Attempting to find a cure for Stupid...

03-30-2009, 06:41 AM	#66 (permalink)
SATCHMO Al Dente Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,708	That's fair, but I do have to say that Yukon's synopsis of the film had little to nothing to do with the video and I feel he ignored most of its central arguments. What he did choose to highlight made no sense or wasn't even a part of the video. I would go through the process, but I feel I have wisdom and intelligence enough to choose my battles, and I sincerely do hope that I am just buying into a load of rubbish.