Should US Legalize Marijuana?

**Janszoon** · 11-04-2010, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

You seem to completely detach the government from the people, but you live in a democracy. Doesn't money to the government mean more money to the people, possibly in the shape of better public schools and roads? That's how we'd see it over here at least.

I think that's one of the ways in which the experience of living in a big country differs from living in a small country, the effects of one's tax dollars aren't as readily apparent. Keep in mind that MAStudent's state alone has many times more people in it than your entire country. It makes for a very different living situation.

duga · 11-04-2010, 08:36 AM

^

I agree. Plus, if we were a true democracy I feel everyone should have a say in where they think their tax dollars should go. For example, during tax season have a big list of stuff the government might want to use it for, and check off the ones you want to contribute towards. As it stands, my tax dollars could very well be going towards a war and not schools, which is something I don't agree with.

Guybrush · 11-04-2010, 09:12 AM

I am not sure why population size (if you could isolate the effect of just "size") should matter so much. If you tax 1 million people 10 dollar, you get 10 million dollars f.ex to fund public schools. If you tax 10 million people, you get 100 million dollars. In both cases, the return from the government to the people is generally the same. That's a very simplified example, but you know. Rather, I think other things turn the government into a "they" rather than an "us". Class differences, cultural differences, money spent on war/debt (little or no return to the people), the fact the minority who don't get their wish in a country of hundreds millions population often equals a huge amount of people, etc.

I could write a lot about how I think all that affects the US, but I'd be getting too far off topic. To get back on track, if you don't see the possibility of cannabis taxation as a return to the people, then I'd think that would sway most people towards a no. I'm not that sceptical to taxation, though, I think it can be good. Here in Norway, they just raised taxes on "unhealthy" foods, something I'm fine with. Not only does it generate money to the government (us), but it should help give people a little extra motivation to eat healthy which will be good for all of us. I just wish they'd reduce taxes on healthy food like fruit or vegetables, but I think that's right around the corner.

Anyways, cannabis taxation could be a return to the people, although I agree with Duga that I'd be a bit pissed if my tax money funded a war. I know how expensive some of the cannon ammunition on our navy vessels are and the thought of a year of wages worth of tax money disappearing in a single cannon blast is in itself frustrating .. And then of course you get the associated suffering.

Percy Thrillington · 11-04-2010, 10:02 AM

Does prohibition work? I dont think so. Drugs are more widely used now that ever before, more drugs are imported and sold on than ever before. All the current drug laws are doing is permitting and causing the drug trade to remain a lucrative source of economic opportunity for street dealers, drug kingpins and all those willing to engage in the often violent, illicit, black market trade. Where's the sense in that?

Maybe the way forward is to legalize drugs and educate people on the pros and cons of every drug, the hard line anti drug people would probably need the most education. The people who kill themselves through OD's or ruin their lives through a drug addiction are doing that anyway, if they became legal i really dont think it would become fashionable to become a heroin addict. The governments of this world have made a rod for their own back on the legalization of drugs issue through their own propaganda, there are billions of people in this world that hate drugs and would never vote to legalize them. If those billions were educated on the subject properly how many of them would change their minds, safe in the knowledge that they thought they knew alot on this issue but after learning realised they knew nothing.

I havent even touched freedom of choice.

RVCA · 11-04-2010, 10:35 AM

I'm not sure if this problem has been touched upon in this thread, but what about driving while stoned? From what I've been told, you can be tested positive for Marijuana use for pretty much a week after having used it, even if you haven't used it since. So what if you get in an accident and have additional charges/expenses filed against you because you tested positive for driving under the influence but weren't actually under the influence?

Furthermore, without a reliable way to determine just how high someone is while driving, I think legalized Marijuana will cause a lot more people to rationalize driving while high. Which, as studies apparently show, reduces reaction time and could lead to an increased number in vehicular accidents.

duga · 11-04-2010, 10:56 AM

^

I'm sure there will be a transition time where things get hectic, but I feel once everyone has eased into the idea of it being legal the driving issue will be no different than drinking and driving.

As it stands, though, weed and driving is a lot different than drinking and driving. It reduces reaction time, yes, but also encourages "paranoid" driving...meaning people generally drive slower. I have not once gotten in the car with someone who has smoked and they start speeding...they are always under the limit. If I know someone smokes a lot and they want to drive, I generally don't stop them. It's no more dangerous than someone who just took their daily meds and drove to work. A new smoker, though, I will tell not to drive. Usually if they are that baked, though, they don't really want to drive in the first place.

LoathsomePete · 11-04-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

^

I'm sure there will be a transition time where things get hectic, but I feel once everyone has eased into the idea of it being legal the driving issue will be no different than drinking and driving.

As it stands, though, weed and driving is a lot different than drinking and driving. It reduces reaction time, yes, but also encourages "paranoid" driving...meaning people generally drive slower. I have not once gotten in the car with someone who has smoked and they start speeding...they are always under the limit. If I know someone smokes a lot and they want to drive, I generally don't stop them. It's no more dangerous than someone who just took their daily meds and drove to work. A new smoker, though, I will tell not to drive. Usually if they are that baked, though, they don't really want to drive in the first place.

Slow drivers can be just as dangerous as speeding drivers, I cannot count the number of times I've nearly been hit by someone while trying to merge onto the freeway at 45 mph because the ******* in front of me was too busy fingering their pussy to enter on at 65 mph. Driving while being impaired on ANYTHING is dangerous and should not be done.

Percy Thrillington · 11-04-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VocalsBass

I am so relieved to find out that the middle school students in Ca. were only sick from eating a candy bar, and not marijuana laced brownies, as first thought and reported on the news. I think this should be seen as an example of what could happen. If our children see that we accept the legalization of pot, then wont they believe that it is OK to consume THC in whatever form that is available to them? I dont think so..not my children!

Children know that alcohol is legal, they see you and others drink it, do the majority of children at school get drunk at break time or on the way to school.

Why would they do it with cannabis. If they were going to do it they'd do it anyway whether its legal or not, one thing that is a fact is cannabis being illegal hasnt stopped people using it, in fact more people use it now than ever.

The only we'll see what can happen if a class full of school kids eats cannabis laced chocolate brownies is if it actually happened, the only thing you'd hear about it on the news is the teacher saying what a pleasant lesson it was.

SATCHMO · 11-04-2010, 03:31 PM

I don't think I would ever want cannabis to ever be without a certain element of subversiveness. Even though smoking herb is marginally accepted within our culture, It being illegal just makes it that much more appealing to me.

~~Dirty~~ · 11-04-2010, 04:14 PM

I think here's the big issue... America is based off the premise of being the 'land of the free.' Millions and millions of people migrated here for different freedoms that their homelands didn't provide.

So to me, it doesn't make sense that the 'land of the free' doesn't allow an individual to do something that is not harmful to others. Or even really harmful to themselves depending on how the marijuana is smoked/eaten.

Right now, a lot of the older politicans came from the era where marijuana was associated with communism and other negative things... As the years roll on, it's inevitable that marijuana will eventually be legalized, but it's going to take the older generations dying off or losing power for it to happen. But just the voting on Prop 19 is a big step towards it. It's just a matter of time, hopefully sooner than later.

None of the arguments against weed really make sense. Know why it's a 'gateway drug'? It's because people who smoke weed eventually get harder drugs pushed on them or offered to them by their weed dealers. In Amsterdam, the percentage of people into heavy drugs is less than it is here, and they have marijuana legal. Because they've seperated marijuana from harder drugs. You don't have dealers pushing weed AND coke or heroin.

Pretty much everyone thinks it should be legalized on every message board I've posted on. I've always been interested in the prison systems and such, and after taking a few courses I realize how negative of an impact the illegalization of weed has on society as a whole. Prisons are already over-crowded, mixing dangerous criminals with drug offenders. This leads to criminals getting released early due to good behavior and stuff, cause they need all the prison space they can get. There's thousands and thousands of people filling our jails for nothing other than marijuana offenses.

Even if it weren't legalized, and just decriminalized, the government wouldn't have to waste tax dollars on the 'war on drugs.' A 'war' which has failed. Billions of dollars go towards destroying marijuana fields and catching those who grow it in mass. Of course, it doesn't help that the government spends millions every year creating false propoganda like Above the Influence campaigns.

11-04-2010, 08:36 AM	#412 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	^ I agree. Plus, if we were a true democracy I feel everyone should have a say in where they think their tax dollars should go. For example, during tax season have a big list of stuff the government might want to use it for, and check off the ones you want to contribute towards. As it stands, my tax dollars could very well be going towards a war and not schools, which is something I don't agree with. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

11-04-2010, 09:12 AM	#413 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I am not sure why population size (if you could isolate the effect of just "size") should matter so much. If you tax 1 million people 10 dollar, you get 10 million dollars f.ex to fund public schools. If you tax 10 million people, you get 100 million dollars. In both cases, the return from the government to the people is generally the same. That's a very simplified example, but you know. Rather, I think other things turn the government into a "they" rather than an "us". Class differences, cultural differences, money spent on war/debt (little or no return to the people), the fact the minority who don't get their wish in a country of hundreds millions population often equals a huge amount of people, etc. I could write a lot about how I think all that affects the US, but I'd be getting too far off topic. To get back on track, if you don't see the possibility of cannabis taxation as a return to the people, then I'd think that would sway most people towards a no. I'm not that sceptical to taxation, though, I think it can be good. Here in Norway, they just raised taxes on "unhealthy" foods, something I'm fine with. Not only does it generate money to the government (us), but it should help give people a little extra motivation to eat healthy which will be good for all of us. I just wish they'd reduce taxes on healthy food like fruit or vegetables, but I think that's right around the corner. Anyways, cannabis taxation could be a return to the people, although I agree with Duga that I'd be a bit pissed if my tax money funded a war. I know how expensive some of the cannon ammunition on our navy vessels are and the thought of a year of wages worth of tax money disappearing in a single cannon blast is in itself frustrating .. And then of course you get the associated suffering. __________________ Something Completely Different

11-04-2010, 10:56 AM	#416 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	^ I'm sure there will be a transition time where things get hectic, but I feel once everyone has eased into the idea of it being legal the driving issue will be no different than drinking and driving. As it stands, though, weed and driving is a lot different than drinking and driving. It reduces reaction time, yes, but also encourages "paranoid" driving...meaning people generally drive slower. I have not once gotten in the car with someone who has smoked and they start speeding...they are always under the limit. If I know someone smokes a lot and they want to drive, I generally don't stop them. It's no more dangerous than someone who just took their daily meds and drove to work. A new smoker, though, I will tell not to drive. Usually if they are that baked, though, they don't really want to drive in the first place. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

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11-04-2010, 10:02 AM	#414 (permalink)
Percy Thrillington Groupie Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Does prohibition work? I dont think so. Drugs are more widely used now that ever before, more drugs are imported and sold on than ever before. All the current drug laws are doing is permitting and causing the drug trade to remain a lucrative source of economic opportunity for street dealers, drug kingpins and all those willing to engage in the often violent, illicit, black market trade. Where's the sense in that? Maybe the way forward is to legalize drugs and educate people on the pros and cons of every drug, the hard line anti drug people would probably need the most education. The people who kill themselves through OD's or ruin their lives through a drug addiction are doing that anyway, if they became legal i really dont think it would become fashionable to become a heroin addict. The governments of this world have made a rod for their own back on the legalization of drugs issue through their own propaganda, there are billions of people in this world that hate drugs and would never vote to legalize them. If those billions were educated on the subject properly how many of them would change their minds, safe in the knowledge that they thought they knew alot on this issue but after learning realised they knew nothing. I havent even touched freedom of choice.

11-04-2010, 10:35 AM	#415 (permalink)
RVCA （￣ー￣） Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,270	I'm not sure if this problem has been touched upon in this thread, but what about driving while stoned? From what I've been told, you can be tested positive for Marijuana use for pretty much a week after having used it, even if you haven't used it since. So what if you get in an accident and have additional charges/expenses filed against you because you tested positive for driving under the influence but weren't actually under the influence? Furthermore, without a reliable way to determine just how high someone is while driving, I think legalized Marijuana will cause a lot more people to rationalize driving while high. Which, as studies apparently show, reduces reaction time and could lead to an increased number in vehicular accidents.

11-04-2010, 03:31 PM	#419 (permalink)
SATCHMO Al Dente Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,708	I don't think I would ever want cannabis to ever be without a certain element of subversiveness. Even though smoking herb is marginally accepted within our culture, It being illegal just makes it that much more appealing to me.

11-04-2010, 04:14 PM	#420 (permalink)
~~Dirty~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: USA Posts: 981	I think here's the big issue... America is based off the premise of being the 'land of the free.' Millions and millions of people migrated here for different freedoms that their homelands didn't provide. So to me, it doesn't make sense that the 'land of the free' doesn't allow an individual to do something that is not harmful to others. Or even really harmful to themselves depending on how the marijuana is smoked/eaten. Right now, a lot of the older politicans came from the era where marijuana was associated with communism and other negative things... As the years roll on, it's inevitable that marijuana will eventually be legalized, but it's going to take the older generations dying off or losing power for it to happen. But just the voting on Prop 19 is a big step towards it. It's just a matter of time, hopefully sooner than later. None of the arguments against weed really make sense. Know why it's a 'gateway drug'? It's because people who smoke weed eventually get harder drugs pushed on them or offered to them by their weed dealers. In Amsterdam, the percentage of people into heavy drugs is less than it is here, and they have marijuana legal. Because they've seperated marijuana from harder drugs. You don't have dealers pushing weed AND coke or heroin. Pretty much everyone thinks it should be legalized on every message board I've posted on. I've always been interested in the prison systems and such, and after taking a few courses I realize how negative of an impact the illegalization of weed has on society as a whole. Prisons are already over-crowded, mixing dangerous criminals with drug offenders. This leads to criminals getting released early due to good behavior and stuff, cause they need all the prison space they can get. There's thousands and thousands of people filling our jails for nothing other than marijuana offenses. Even if it weren't legalized, and just decriminalized, the government wouldn't have to waste tax dollars on the 'war on drugs.' A 'war' which has failed. Billions of dollars go towards destroying marijuana fields and catching those who grow it in mass. Of course, it doesn't help that the government spends millions every year creating false propoganda like Above the Influence campaigns.