Should US Legalize Marijuana?

Guybrush · 11-02-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

And if your tax money pays for law enforcement then what's illegal or not should be your business. When taxpayer-supported law enforcement arrests, prosecutes and imprisons someone you helped pay for that, right? Don't you think your tax dollars could be better spent?

I agree, but I fail to see how it's relevant to my post. The point I wanted to make was that in a modern society such a England, Norway or the US, you and your health affects other people. If you wanna be an island, go live on one.

**Janszoon** · 11-02-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I agree, but I fail to see how it's relevant to my post. The point I wanted to make was that in a modern society such a England, Norway or the US, you and your health affects other people. If you wanna be an island, go live on one.

And I was making the point that the laws you seem to support also don't exist in a vacuum. They too cost money and impact society in a negative way.

Guybrush · 11-02-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

And I was making the point that the laws you seem to support also don't exist in a vacuum. They too cost money and impact society in a negative way.

I already wrote a couple of posts ago that I'm currently on the fence on this thing. I just think the argument that "it's not the government's business what I put in my body" stinks, whether dealing with cannabis, heroin or sugar.

I have perhaps a bad habit of replying against arguments that I don't think make sense, even if I'm not necessarily against the larger picture they promote. The legalization arguments so far in this thread have often been based on egocentric wants, personal observations, health myths and the idea that the legality of something which is bad for us (like alcohol) should automatically justify the inclusion of something else which is bad for us.

The argument that the war on cannabis costs money is the only intelligent pro-legalization argument I can remember anyone make in this thread at the moment.

**Janszoon** · 11-02-2010, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I already wrote a couple of posts ago that I'm currently on the fence on this thing. I just think the argument that "it's not the government's business what I put in my body" stinks, whether dealing with cannabis, heroin or sugar.

I think then that you and I are coming at this from two fundamentally and irreconcilably different perspectives. In my view one should be free to do whatever one wants unless in infringes on the freedoms of others. Any law that takes away personal freedoms better have one hell of a good justification for doing so and "it's unhealthy" just doesn't cut the mustard for me.

Guybrush · 11-02-2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I think then that you and I are coming at this from two fundamentally and irreconcilably different perspectives. In my view one should be free to do whatever one wants unless in infringes on the freedoms of others. Any law that takes away personal freedoms better have one hell of a good justification for doing so and "it's unhealthy" just doesn't cut the mustard for me.

Then I think you're right in that we think fundamentally different. I believe the way to improve the lives of people in a society is to improve the society they live in. Although it's impossible to know beforehand, if giving up a personal freedom will make the overall quality of life go up in a society, then I think giving up that freedom may be justified.

I accept that in society, I won't be completely free to do whatever and I'm fine with that. I'd take happiness and less personal freedoms over freedom and misery any day. Freedoms we give up are usually freedoms we can do without, not things that are crucial to our quality of life.

**Janszoon** · 11-02-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Then I think you're right in that we think fundamentally different. I believe the way to improve the lives of people in a society is to improve the society they live in. Although it's impossible to know beforehand, if giving up a personal freedom will make the overall quality of life go up in a society, then I think giving up that freedom may be justified.

I accept that in society, I won't be completely free to do whatever and I'm fine with that. I'd take happiness and less personal freedoms over freedom and misery any day. Freedoms we give up are usually freedoms we can do without, not things that are crucial to our quality of life.

On the bolded part we agree. And I feel that having prisons filled to the rafters with people convicted of victimless drug offenses has a negative impact on society not a positive one.

LoathsomePete · 11-02-2010, 12:54 PM

Speaking from the law enforcement side, most cops don't really care about low end drug users like pretty much all of us. Some cops might act like busting some teens smoking pot is the crime of the century, but that is mostly for show. What cops dislike about drugs is the violence that inevitably follows it. Where there is drugs you will find drug violence and or property crime. While violence and property crime mostly manifests to higher tiers of drugs, but when even with pot the violence exists. I also don't really believe that legalizing drugs will lower the violence at all because the dealers will be hanging onto whatever they can hang onto. It would be like if Wal-Mart was coming to town and the town's small business owners took it upon themselves to kill the Wal-Mart store manager and employees. I know I'm extrapolating a little bit, but I know for a fact that a lot of pot dealers here in Nevada are shitting themselves today waiting for the ballots to be counted up in California. If drugs and drug dealers had a better reputation in the public's trust then I think the idea of legalizing drugs would be more favorable.

A slightly naive look, but it does contain some truth.

Guybrush · 11-02-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

On the bolded part we agree. And I feel that having prisons filled to the rafters with people convicted of victimless drug offenses has a negative impact on society not a positive one.

I agree with that. I just think it's (for me) so hard to grasp the full scope of consequences legalization would have in the US. Is it a given that it would reduce crime? If nothing changes except it's turned legal, then crime should go down. If private companies are going to grow it and the government is going to tax it in an effort to control it, then the crime today could simply turn into black market crime instead. Under such a system, if the amount of cannabis consumers increases, then so could black market crime. That's not a prediction, just one of many possibilities for the future.

The reason I'm currently on the fence is that I don't really know what legalization would entail. The effect it will have on crime is one of the things I don't know, but there are plenty of others. F.ex is it going to be grown in the US or are companies gonna get their product from other countries? In my opinion, it's details like that which could turn a good idea into a bad one and vice versa. There could be a way to do it which I could support and another I'd be against, but I'm not sure what the general agenda of the pro-legalization people is.

11-02-2010, 12:54 PM	#7 (permalink)
LoathsomePete Cardboard Box Realtor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Hobb's End Posts: 7,648	Speaking from the law enforcement side, most cops don't really care about low end drug users like pretty much all of us. Some cops might act like busting some teens smoking pot is the crime of the century, but that is mostly for show. What cops dislike about drugs is the violence that inevitably follows it. Where there is drugs you will find drug violence and or property crime. While violence and property crime mostly manifests to higher tiers of drugs, but when even with pot the violence exists. I also don't really believe that legalizing drugs will lower the violence at all because the dealers will be hanging onto whatever they can hang onto. It would be like if Wal-Mart was coming to town and the town's small business owners took it upon themselves to kill the Wal-Mart store manager and employees. I know I'm extrapolating a little bit, but I know for a fact that a lot of pot dealers here in Nevada are shitting themselves today waiting for the ballots to be counted up in California. If drugs and drug dealers had a better reputation in the public's trust then I think the idea of legalizing drugs would be more favorable. A slightly naive look, but it does contain some truth. __________________ Last.FM 101 Albums That May Not Change Your Life, But I Really Like And You Might Too