Think about this

Freebase Dali · 05-29-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

I think the problem is people draw conclusions and form opinions much more by reading about things as oppose to doing them. Reading about something used to force you to ask questions, to put what little portion of the entire puzzle you've learned into practice. Now instead we just click on the next link and draw another conclusion.

There are a lot of talkers and a lot less doers.

To me I've always looked at the progression as information (when combined with experience leads to) knowledge (when combined with experience leads to) wisdom.

The previous post makes some good points and draws some conclusions I disagree with.

I do think the wealth of information at our finger tips is dumbing us down, is discouraging us learning how to do things. I do think that is a generalization but anything but an ignorant one. Of course their are expectations, but they're are a lot more people who don't even understand how much they are missing out on. When you read something online, you share in someone else's learning experience, when you do something yourself you create your own expereince which has an abundance more or relatblei information that you can turn into knowledge and wisdom.

I don't think people should be faulted for taking advantage of the wealth of information so readily available to them, but I don't think they should confuse information with knowledge. I can read an article on how a helicopter fly's and explain it perfectly, that doesn't know anything about why it fly's, it means I can read and relay information.

Now lets say I never learned to read but spent my life fixing helicopters, I might not be able to explain how it flys, but I could fix it if it wasn't flying.

Where we go astray is we tend to trust the first guy still because in the past if somebody knew enough about something to explain it or break it down in great detail it was because they had knowledge about the subject, expereince and wisdom. Today there are a lot more of those first types however and most of them couldn't tell there ass from a hole in the ground unless they did a Google image search.

I also feel like there is an unwillingness to admit a lack of knowledge now, the same curiosity that used to fuel learning and growth is now looked at as a weakness by a lot of young people who'd rather lie about what they know and go look it up.

That last paragraph you typed is intensely true.
With this net beneath us, we feel like no matter how sure footed we think we are, we've always got a backup.

But that's the kind of clusterfuck kinda situation that flips this whole thing around. It helps us, but it hurts us. It can hurt us, but it has such a potential to help us.

Something that very recently made me actually think about exactly what we're talking about:

My dad called me talking about a compressor for an AC unit for a house I'm selling, and me, not knowing crap about AC compressors, a lot of it was going over my head. He was giving me the specs so I could replace the compressor. (which is ridiculously expensive, btw... never buy one. Just go steal it.) So naturally, my first instinct is: "Google > type used compressors > find lowest price".
I realized that the knowledge he had was a product of actually working with the equipment. Sure, I can find the right compressor, but what do I watch out for? How do I know what I buy is of operable quality?
I really don't want to spend my life on Google, so I typically make a decision and roll with it. If I'm proven wrong with my decision, I will have learned.
But I can't possibly learn everything there is to learn just in case I'll need the knowledge.

What I'm getting at is: respect knowledge gained by experience, but if you happen to have gotten knowledge from an inexperienced source... well, that's experience.

05-29-2009, 08:13 AM

There is nothing bad from having more information readily available. I remember when I was a kid, before we bought our first computer, I had dreams of acquiring all the possible knowledge I could. I struggled in school because I found school work tedious and boring. Now, being part of the information age, everything seems pretty good. Being able to look up most things I'm curious about brings a certain drive and makes me want to learn more. Having it all available to me has increased my willingness and want to learn. The internet makes learning fun, which it should be.

Freebase Dali · 05-29-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unfan

There is nothing bad from having more information readily available. I remember when I was a kid, before we bought our first computer, I had dreams of acquiring all the possible knowledge I could. I struggled in school because I found school work tedious and boring. Now, being part of the information age, everything seems pretty good. Being able to look up most things I'm curious about brings a certain drive and makes me want to learn more. Having it all available to me has increased my willingness and want to learn. The internet makes learning fun, which it should be.

That's cool. But to me, the emphasis of my argument is placed on some people's inability to see the same virtues in, say, two people who spend several years in college... only one is traditional, and the other, online.

I'm only using that as an example of an end justifying its means.

Son of JayJamJah · 05-29-2009, 01:50 PM

I agree with the sentiment that having knowledge readily available is nothing but a good thing.

The down side of having this information available is becoming to dependent on "google" or "wikipedia" (to greatly over simplify the info available on the net) is missing out on the doing, the experience.

Someone (I think VF) said something about motivation being a common factor. YES YES YES. When you can just read about something you might lose the motivation to gain that knowledge through experience.

This is why people who read the book usually think the book is better then the movie, in a roundabout way.

Best metaphor I can give you:

I give the same Dresser unassembled to two people.

Person A is a carpenter and is given no instructions and no previous knowledge of piece of furniture.

Person B has never assembled any furniture but is allowed to select the dresser to be assembled by both and is given detailed instructions as well as a laptop PC.

Who is your money on to finish assembling it first?

cardboard adolescent · 05-31-2009, 12:37 AM

i think the past that serves as a model is just another fantasy world we've managed to construct. if things are 'moving towards meaninglessness,' what does that really mean but that our fantasies are confessing their own absurdity? is clinging to illusions to escape from suffering really all life is? i personally believe there is more to life than that, but that to find it you have to let go.

Bane of your existence · 05-31-2009, 12:43 AM

<- wants to smoke weed with you

cardboard adolescent · 05-31-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bane of your existence

<- wants to smoke weed with you

if you're ever in chicago...

Fruitonica · 05-31-2009, 02:52 AM

The phrase, 'moving towards meaningless' is pointless, and I can't imagine how you would articulate the meaning of earlier generations. To give life a meaning, you pretty much have to presuppose the existence of some external creator that apply its understanding of life's meaning onto us.
Otherwise we can only forge meaning from our own context, and any 'meaning' we alight on would be just as arbitrary and pointless as any other.

Regarding the information age, I'd say the availability of information is placing less importance on the amassing of information and more on the ability to shift through the multitude of sources and come up with a decent analysis of the matter.
Not that that wasn't always an important skill, but that seems to be the direction society is heading in.

Son of JayJamJah · 06-02-2009, 01:32 PM

I think in the relative long run the information age will serve to advance scientific and biological evolution.

I'm not talking about creating super humans or r2d2's, getting high with Chewbaca or logical with Spock. But entering further into the unknown. I think all of our history tells us this is what will happen. The more information we can share the more solutions and conclusions that can be reached. Growing presumably closer to the unattainable absence of unknown.

It's repeatedly been pointed out in this thread that it's all about what you do with the information available to you. It's easier and more common to just let it go in one ear and out the other and be used as a "back-up drive" for your memory. However there is no doubt that it opens a world of opportunity for the properly motivated and most ambitious learners among us.

Son of JayJamJah · 06-02-2009, 07:08 PM

Cardboard

Do you believe we are killing God?

If so how? and if not how do we go about it?

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05-29-2009, 08:13 AM	#2 (permalink)
The Unfan Guest Posts: n/a	There is nothing bad from having more information readily available. I remember when I was a kid, before we bought our first computer, I had dreams of acquiring all the possible knowledge I could. I struggled in school because I found school work tedious and boring. Now, being part of the information age, everything seems pretty good. Being able to look up most things I'm curious about brings a certain drive and makes me want to learn more. Having it all available to me has increased my willingness and want to learn. The internet makes learning fun, which it should be.

05-31-2009, 12:37 AM	#5 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,511	i think the past that serves as a model is just another fantasy world we've managed to construct. if things are 'moving towards meaninglessness,' what does that really mean but that our fantasies are confessing their own absurdity? is clinging to illusions to escape from suffering really all life is? i personally believe there is more to life than that, but that to find it you have to let go.

05-31-2009, 12:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
Bane of your existence Such That Join Date: May 2007 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 1,197	<- wants to smoke weed with you

05-31-2009, 02:52 AM	#8 (permalink)
Fruitonica Pale and Wan Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aus Posts: 917	The phrase, 'moving towards meaningless' is pointless, and I can't imagine how you would articulate the meaning of earlier generations. To give life a meaning, you pretty much have to presuppose the existence of some external creator that apply its understanding of life's meaning onto us. Otherwise we can only forge meaning from our own context, and any 'meaning' we alight on would be just as arbitrary and pointless as any other. Regarding the information age, I'd say the availability of information is placing less importance on the amassing of information and more on the ability to shift through the multitude of sources and come up with a decent analysis of the matter. Not that that wasn't always an important skill, but that seems to be the direction society is heading in.