Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > Community Center > The Lounge > Current Events, Philosophy, & Religion
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-14-2009, 05:29 PM   #31 (permalink)
Muck Fusic
 
IamAlejo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 1,575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SATCHMO View Post
Socialization of healthcare is the only answer. That or the total abolition of the health insurance industry. Let's make hospitals and doctors compete with each other just like every other type of business has too.
Great idea. Abolish an entire industry in the middle of an economic downturn with unemployment already much higher than expected.



The timing of this is my biggest argument against it. Makes absolutely zero sense to do this right now. Throw that on top of all campaign stating there would be no tax on health benefits given to employees and he's already reneged on that stating he's giving it a thought.

The 'pubs in Congress are about as devoid of good leadership as the Democrats [who have Pelosi and Reid!], which leads to the Dems going about this completely the wrong way and the 'pubs drawing the wrong lines in the sand.

Throw in the fact that there isn't even a proposal for this...just his good ole "call for change" that will lead us to another inept "stimulus" bill on steroids. The fact that he supports a single payer system is one of the dumbest ideas I've heard of.

I have little to no doubt that there will be major change to healthcare. I'd be willing to bet it fails. We have leaders right now that have a penchant for throwing the government into things it knows nothing about. This idea is a great one in theory but not practical.
__________________
a man, a plan, a canal, panama

Last edited by IamAlejo; 06-14-2009 at 05:51 PM.
IamAlejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 05:38 PM   #32 (permalink)
Such That
 
Bane of your existence's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,193
Default

Are you saying Obama is a reneger?
Bane of your existence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 05:48 PM   #33 (permalink)
Muck Fusic
 
IamAlejo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 1,575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane of your existence View Post
Are you saying Obama is a reneger?
:dagger

Moreover though...our lawmakers have been notoriously bad at projecting program costs and there is actually no reason for them to be accurate. They have no skin in the game for what may happen 20 years from now. Paint a blue-sky, rosy scenario and collect your pension when you retire. The government's previous record in administering matters such as these should give you pause [cause we all see the great shape social security is in].
__________________
a man, a plan, a canal, panama
IamAlejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 05:55 PM   #34 (permalink)
Palm Muted
 
Hesher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane of your existence View Post
Yeah, firemen and cops were there for the rich. That's the point. You're forgetting about the drop-in-the-bucket problem. Think about National Defense. In a free market there is no incentive for you to pay for your share. The defense as a whole is such a giant thing, that your small contribution will go unnoticed. However, it's not something that you can give to only the people that pay for it. Everyone enjoys its benifits regardless of what they chipped in. It's the same thing with firemen. They wont go stand by a house while it's burning just to make sure the fire doesn't get out of hand and spread to buildings that paid for fire protection. Everyone enjoys it's benifits so it wouldn't hurt not to pay for it. That's why there has to be a tax, to make sure everyone contributes. In healthcare, it's easy to exclude the people that don't pay. You need treatment, you pay. This example is exclusive, therefore not a social good.

I'm with you and all. I'm just helping you out because some people like to argue by shooting down moot points of your diatribe, making you look like 'you don't know what you're talking about,' instead of talking about the overall problem.
I see what you're trying to say, and I appreciate how nice you are about it considering I called your post bull****. National Defense is a better example of that, but I still think Police and Firemen could also be a private business. There is no reason the Police can't enforce the law on some people and not on others (like corrupt Police or security guards) or protect some people and not others. The fact that Police are out there arresting lawbreakers is only because they are paid by the government and not by individuals (unless they're corrupt). It's also possible for firemen to wet down the houses on either side of the burning house, and I've read accounts of them doing exactly that back when you had to pay for fire protection.

Even ignoring the point of helping others by contributing to their health care, isn't the whole point of it to make it affordable? On a purely selfish basis, you are getting the same level of care as they are for what is likely a better price than what you had or didn't have under private insurance. I don't think we should outlaw private practice or anything like that, but an appropriate level of minimum care is necessary in my opinion. That's why I support welfare, government pension, all that sort of thing and why I live in Canada.

It remains to be seen what plan is the best and whether the government will even be able to pull off a socialized health program in the States; Alejo's point is well taken. I think it's a step in the right direction though and high on the list of homeland priorities that Obama should be focusing on in lieu of saber wielding in other countries.
Hesher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 05:59 PM   #35 (permalink)
Muck Fusic
 
IamAlejo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 1,575
Default

one last thing...something similar to what the Dutch have with a tiered approach would be my ideal system. I'm still not sure it'd be possible here in the US but if anything it has the best chance.
__________________
a man, a plan, a canal, panama
IamAlejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 06:20 PM   #36 (permalink)
Such That
 
Bane of your existence's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesher View Post
and I appreciate how nice you are
Blasphemy
Bane of your existence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 08:38 PM   #37 (permalink)
Palm Muted
 
Hesher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bane of your existence View Post
blasphemy
:d
Hesher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2009, 01:11 AM   #38 (permalink)
king of sex
 
asshat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesher View Post
I see what you're trying to say, and I appreciate how nice you are about it considering I called your post bull****. National Defense is a better example of that, but I still think Police and Firemen could also be a private business. There is no reason the Police can't enforce the law on some people and not on others (like corrupt Police or security guards) or protect some people and not others. The fact that Police are out there arresting lawbreakers is only because they are paid by the government and not by individuals (unless they're corrupt). It's also possible for firemen to wet down the houses on either side of the burning house, and I've read accounts of them doing exactly that back when you had to pay for fire protection.

.

Don't you find anything unsettling about for-profit law enforcement? They're should only be as many cops as are absolutely necessary. Certain things like police and corrections shouldn't be for-profit. If your trying to expand your business what incentive do you have to stop crime?What incentive do you have not to put more people in jail for increasingly minor infractions.
__________________
Rye Catcher II: Electric Boogaloo
http://oldhickory666.blogspot.com/
asshat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2009, 01:54 AM   #39 (permalink)
Palm Muted
 
Hesher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asshat View Post
Don't you find anything unsettling about for-profit law enforcement? They're should only be as many cops as are absolutely necessary. Certain things like police and corrections shouldn't be for-profit. If your trying to expand your business what incentive do you have to stop crime?What incentive do you have not to put more people in jail for increasingly minor infractions.
That's exactly what I'm saying. Police, firemen, etc. are all public services that our governments have decided to socialize in order to provide them to everyone, and health care, in my opinion, should be like that. I find for-profit or private government industries pretty unsettling, for sure. I actually wrote a paper for Sociology this year about how the for-profit prison system in California is supported by things like mandatory minimums that are essentially nothing more than political grandstanding. Private ownership of what should be public, not-for-profit corporations is totally the wrong way to go. We agree, dude.
Hesher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2009, 06:24 AM   #40 (permalink)
king of sex
 
asshat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesher View Post
That's exactly what I'm saying. Police, firemen, etc. are all public services that our governments have decided to socialize in order to provide them to everyone, and health care, in my opinion, should be like that. I find for-profit or private government industries pretty unsettling, for sure. I actually wrote a paper for Sociology this year about how the for-profit prison system in California is supported by things like mandatory minimums that are essentially nothing more than political grandstanding. Private ownership of what should be public, not-for-profit corporations is totally the wrong way to go. We agree, dude.
....ha,I can't interpret sarcasm,....anyways, I read up on how the private prison sector was a strong supporter of the three strikes legislation, and the "war on drugs" and all that jazz.
__________________
Rye Catcher II: Electric Boogaloo
http://oldhickory666.blogspot.com/
asshat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



2003-2019 Advameg, Inc.

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.