Now... THAT is the real question

Not why did God create pain, not why did he create suffering, not why did he create painful deaths, not why did he create violence..

But WHY did he create hangnails?! :laughing:

When I read "Why did he.." I expected to read something really profound and inciteful

The primary thing that we know about pain is that we do not like it (unless your a masochist and that's a different story), but what would our lives be like without it. Whether you're willing to realize it or not the pain and suffering that you've gone through or will go through is the greatest provider of true wisdom in your life, both on a pragmatic biological level and on an emotional level.
But we know we don't like it and many of us truly never get past that. We ask god "why?!?!?" There's pain to give contrast to joy and so we can internalize and grow through the lessons that rough periods in our life provide us with. Who hasn't gone through a traumatic experience and wound up a wiser more mature person as a result. It's true, as George s. Patton said "what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger"

If a masochist likes pain then is it really pain or is it bliss? In which case is bliss to them, or at least the estrangement from pain, pain in itself? In which case doesn't this all still apply to them just in opposite terms? DDDDDDDDDDDDDDD: ??

Usually it's either an endorphins addiction or a need to be dominated. So yeah, masochistic pain really doesn't really count. I guess i'm refering to the broad heading of "undesirable circumstances or stimuli"

Now it makes sense to me.

Let me rephrase the question of this thread because it has become another atheist vs. Christianity thread. What I am asking is can we create a god for ourselves that will actually motivate use to pursue our happiness without getting in the way. An undesirable god is one that creates a justice system for us because that undermines our control over our own destiny.

Religion in the past has viewed their gods as the masters of the universe who control their lives. What if we could create a divine being in which we are the master of it or share the status of being a master with it? Of course, the one option is ourselves being gods, which we really are to a degree if you believe in free will. However, we don't have the divinity that "gods" have. So what kind of belief in a divine being would be able to sit out of our lives, but at the same time give us motivation to pursue happiness?

My idea is that instead of a religion creating us we create a religion for us that will actually benefit ourselves as individuals.

I would just like a god that gives me awesome, godly foot massages at the end of every day.

I feel like this is putting the cart before the horse, and implying that these gods exist. The gods aren't asking us to give up our rational mind, our rational mind is creating explanations for things we can't rationalize.

Zeus was created from a lack of understanding, and lightning.

Well its going to be Christianity vs. something if you're directly challenging the dominate religion in the anglo-sphere.

And Why would anyone but an atheist go about creating gods?

the perfect god is making the game-winning shot with two seconds left on the clock,
the perfect god is kissing your best gal on the boardwalk while watching a sunset,
the perfect god is a corner office at an advertising firm on michigan avenue.

What I am saying is that the religions that most people follow tell people to abandon themselves. I think this is a problem because in order for your self to be happy you must be-in-yourself.

I never implied that any sort of divine or spiritual exists. I am merely saying that if there is a positive aspect to believing in the divine and spiritual, how can we keep this while at the same time getting rid of the idea that god is more powerful than you and etc.

Because really, what if there is a positive to believing in a divine power? We don't just believe things because we think they are true, at least that isn't how I work. I personally take stances on things based on how I will benefit in the end aka what will lead me to happiness. So what if believing in the divine is part of achieving happiness? Then there must be some way to contain the belief in the divine without believing in divinity that they hinder our ability to exist ourselves or there is some divine punishment for choosing to live.

Basically, I ave already stated why Christianity is not the religion that is acceptable to this idea. Christianity states that there is a god above man that can interrupt man whenever he wants. It also say that you should believe in a morality based on the reason that the morality exists in a sacred text. That belief alone undermines the human.

See, I am not thinking about religion as it is traditionally thought out. Traditionally, God is the master and we are the slave. What I am saying is can we use the idea of god to make god our slave. What I mean is can we benefit at all in believing in a divine power that is limited to the extent where man becomes equal to it? Would it be cutting to the chase to view Man himself as the god of the universe?