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Inuzuka Skysword 07-01-2009 07:38 PM

An Ideal God
 
Lately I have been wondering what faith-based beliefs would actually do good for a person. These days we have a choice of gods who all say that we must do this to become happy. In other words, they require us to forget about our thinking and instead make us strive to lose our rational mind. There are also gods that make us feel as if we don't have control of our own existence. I feel like that is a problem to.

What I was thinking about was, is there are type of god that would actually motivate a human to pursue happiness stronger without making him feel as if he has lost control? Could we use religion to benefit our lives. It would probably have to be a deist god of some sort. I was thinking concepts related to animism, pantheism, and such would be more attractive to this type of thought.

See, Nietzsche presented the conflict of pursuing happiness and truth. We must pursue both, but one's answer is dependent on the other. We can pursue happiness in truth or pursue truth in happiness. In other words, one has to come before the other and the fact that one does changes our possible answer on the other.

So whether or not god is real is not the question we should be asking. Whether believing in a spiritual entity is beneficial to humans is what we should be asking. My question is, what entity would benefit a human who is pursuing individual happiness? Is there even an entity besides himself? Must an individualist view himself as a god?

Also, if this idea has been discussed before in other writings please give me some references.

sleepy jack 07-01-2009 07:47 PM

One of the reasons I've had more of a problem with Christianity then any other religion is, I remember this from when I was younger, there was a Priest who was talking about how great Catholicism is because it doesn't make you shoulder everything and save yourself. That's because Jesus saves you and you can lean on him, he then made a smug remark about how other religions you have to work towards Heaven (I'm using this term broadly to refer to whatever any particular religion's ideal end result is) all on your own and rely on yourself. I've always had a problem with externalizing the blame and placing it on some metaphysical/fictitious being and just asking for forgiveness. I guess that's why if I had to believe in some sort of universal justice it would be karmic law as opposed to some sort of divine Abrahamic arbiter. Basically what I'm getting at with all this is I don't feel the modern Christian god (the American one that protects soccer moms and suburban housing) is very helpful, realistically or idealistically.

Arya Stark 07-01-2009 07:48 PM

I agree with Ethan.

I think maybe, the reason there is nothing you can find on this, is because it may not have to do with a god.

Does that make sense?

SATCHMO 07-01-2009 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack (Post 696576)
One of the reasons I've had more of a problem with Christianity then any other religion is, I remember this from when I was younger, there was a Priest who was talking about how great Catholicism is because it doesn't make you shoulder everything and save yourself. That's because Jesus saves you and you can lean on him, he then made a smug remark about how other religions you have to work towards Heaven (I'm using this term broadly to refer to whatever any particular religion's ideal end result is) all on your own and rely on yourself. I've always had a problem with externalizing the blame and placing it on some metaphysical/fictitious being and just asking for forgiveness. I guess that's why if I had to believe in some sort of universal justice it would be karmic law as opposed to some sort of divine Abrahamic arbiter. Basically what I'm getting at with all this is I don't feel the modern Christian god (the American one that protects soccer moms and suburban housing) is very helpful, realistically or idealistically.

This is the great lie of both protestant and catholic Christianity. "sit back, relax, Jesus has gotcha' covered" (pun intended). The whole idea of substitutionary atonement (that Jesus died to provide a sacrifice for our sins) is something that was made up after his death, along with the immaculate conception, in order to deify him and make a religion surrounding his life that would actually work, as Karl Marx stated, as "The opiate of the masses". Because in all reality the Christianity that was being practiced before it was capitalized upon by the Roman empire was very dangerous and subversive. It was much better to have a peasant class that endured their own suffering for the sake of having some hope of a comforting afterlife than to have a guerrilla uprising that demanded equality and justice for all regardless of class, gender, or ethnicity, which was much closer to what the original christians were.
Jesus had a fine understanding of spiritual dynamics and the essence of "what" god is, and our right relationship with "him" (or her, or it). History has simply contorted that message to fit its own purpose and agenda.

Neapolitan 07-01-2009 10:41 PM

I think the most perfect God is the Holy Trinity,

sleepy jack 07-01-2009 10:45 PM

why

SATCHMO 07-01-2009 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 696708)
I think the most perfect God is the Holy Trinity,

Sub-conscious, ego, and super-ego?

mr dave 07-01-2009 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO (Post 696714)
Sub-conscious, ego, and super-ego?

nice haha

i was about to say the perfect god is yourself. so long as you're able to recognize that it only applies to yourself and that everyone else is governed by their own god too.

Freebase Dali 07-02-2009 12:15 AM

You know something... I can't really blame people for their belief in their gods. My parents are Christian and always make it a point to tell me every time something good has happened, it's because god did it. I know my dad got paid 200 dollars for cutting some grass, but if he want's to believe it was a blessing from god, then that's fine.
Meanwhile, I'm sitting there thinking, "You got 0 dollars to your name, you're struggling because you're waiting for god to bless you, then when you're at the end of your rope, you cut some guy's grass for 200 dollars of labor, and he gives you 200 dollars.... well done, Jesus."
But he's happy because I guess faith is easier to swallow than responsibility.
Whatever puts a smile on your face, pop.

Astronomer 07-02-2009 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veridical Fiction (Post 696780)
You know something... I can't really blame people for their belief in their gods. My parents are Christian and always make it a point to tell me every time something good has happened, it's because god did it. I know my dad got paid 200 dollars for cutting some grass, but if he want's to believe it was a blessing from god, then that's fine.
Meanwhile, I'm sitting there thinking, "You got 0 dollars to your name, you're struggling because you're waiting for god to bless you, then when you're at the end of your rope, you cut some guy's grass for 200 dollars of labor, and he gives you 200 dollars.... well done, Jesus."
But he's happy because I guess faith is easier to swallow than responsibility.
Whatever puts a smile on your face, pop.

I feel the same about a lot of people in my life who have faith in God or a particular God. I don't blame them. I was recently in hospital quite sick and when I finally came home my Nonna (Italian grandma hehe) told me that I got better because she prayed to God for me. I don't believe in God but I could see how satisfied and happy she was with this idea. A lot of my family and friends follow the idea of a God because I guess it makes them happy, and for that I don't blame them.


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