ElephantSack

I've come to recognize that being for human beings, i.e. - being incredibly complicated yet simple creatures - there is no religion that could possibly supply all the answers to whatever metaphysical/spiritual questions that your average human might come to ask. I've also come to recognize that most people claim membership to certain factions out of habit, self-consciousness, fear, tradition and so on. Rare are the men and women who take the time to choose what is right for them, what makes sense to them, what makes them happy.

It is my opinion that we have the opportunity nay, the responsibility, to examine the existing religions and take what works and build our own moral codes based on the lessons granted by previous beliefs.



Here's mine.

Judaism/Christianity/Islam - Basically, when I come to look at these religions that I used to hate in an objective light, I realize that the main message is just to love and respect each other and the Earth. Nothing wrong with that. I of course recognized that by reading between the lines and not looking too much into the fine print.

Satanism - I recognize the facet of Satanism that touts people as "their own God". To me, this means nothing more than belief in one's self.

Buddhism - The ideals of Inner Peace, World Soul and Enlightenment have become things that I've been very receptive of in recent years.

Hedonism - Experiencing other people in whatever ways you are interested in, as long as its consensual, is something that I could never see anything wrong with. That being said, I don't know what other religions have to say about it, but sometimes there is little in the world that makes me feel better than the taste of a clean, disease-free, freshly shaven pussy.

Taoism - Seeing as how there is, was and always will be things that will be beyond your comprehension, I think that a strong sense of the absurd is a very handy thing to have.

Hinduism - The entities of the Creator, Sustainer and Destroyer are, to me, more interperative of the cycle of all life. Every religion has its own approaches toward this idea.



So I guess you could say that if I would belong to anything close to a belief system, it would be more or less a mixture of these.

I find it imperative that more people figure out what's right for them instead of blindly accepting doctrines that they really don't understand or even follow. Because its the sad fact of the times that most people don't even know what they believe in anymore. In a world where there exist "Christians" and "Muslims" who are bigoted and racist, its clear that something got lost or manipulated in translation.

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Inuzuka Skysword

Why do you need a religious code to create your morality? What is the purpose of morality? What is the definition of morality?

See, you create a moral code as what is right according to the universe and what is wrong according to the universe. The universe doesn't supply a morality though. God is dead, man.

I mean it depends on how you view epistemology, but if you see reason as man's ultimate tool than in order for one to want and have a morality, he must have a reason. You pursue a truth that is not found in the universe. Morality is a means to an end. That is the definition.

So the universe, in a nihilists view, as no purpose. Your goal, to overcome this nihilism, is to create a end or purpose for yourself. Once you have the end, you must create the means to it using your rational mind.

So where does a religious morality come in? It doesn't. I mean, one should treat the books as if they were written by primitive philosophers. They may have good ideas, but until you have reason to believe that those ideas are better than your own, they are worthless.

Also, I don't think hedonism is a religion.

ElephantSack

Thank you for your response. To be honest, the inspiration for this thread came from a morning full of coffee, dishwashing and religious debate amongst my co-workers.

I myself am not religious in the least. I have certain things that I adhere to and tout, but I, like most of the world, am a hypocrite from time to time. Using certain edicts from old religions and social/moral contracts just seemed like a fun idea to me.

I can't really say whether I believe the statement "God is dead.". In certain ways of thinking, yes. Deader than fried chicken. But the idea of a creator doesn't turn me off. Personally, I think about the idea of God is everything, meaning we are all equal, which reaches for cooperation, contribution and peace. But what it got turned into was the Ego's perception of the "way things should be". Which is different for everybody. So if nobody can agree, then there can be no cooperation, and if your not helping each other, then there is no contribution to the greater good, which leads to conflict.

To me morals are not just about the end by which means are justified, but they are the lessons you keep by learning from mistakes that shape your attitude and determine how you treat other people. Morals to me are things like honor, dignity, respect, loyalty.

Religious morality? I've not seen such a thing on the broad scale. Religious immorality? That's another story. And yes, I think the books are good for examples of the mistakes that we must learn from. Not the stories and Aesop-style morals, but just taking a look at what mankind has perpetrated in the name of scripture are the follies that need to be brought to light before we allow our world to be consumed by it.

Yeah, Hedonism isn't a religion. More of ethos, I suppose, or a social/moral contract.

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Inuzuka Skysword

The statement, "God is dead" means that certainty is dead. Nietzsche used it to describe that fact that if one believes in God, one has certainty of his morals and such. When I used it, I was implying that since we don't believe in a God, he can't give us morals to believe and we must find them for ourselves.

Why do you need a morality?

As far as I know from The Picture of Dorian Gray, it is a philosophy which puts pleasure first, without thinking of the long term consequences.

Neapolitan

I really don't understand Nietzsche, but one should not say "God is dead." For all the people who lived before sought after and believed in a God and all the people that will live in the future after we are gone they too will believe in a God, and if one looks around there are people who believe in a God now, by saying "God is dead" one alienates oneself from the whole of humanity (past, present and future) who believes in a God. I had a choice of belonging to one of two groups one who believes God is Love and the other who believes "God is Dead," I would have to pick the group who believes in Love.

ElephantSack

I can't really say that I don't believe in a God. I certainly don't believe in a big white man with sandals and a beard who lives in the sky and watches everything we do, but what I try to imagine is what people are feeling when they think of what God is. I try to formulate my own answer to the idea of God.
To me morals are just standards. You might hold a certain standard of living for yourself; you might hope for a certain level of respect from others. And I can't really disagree that you should treat people the way that you would want to be treated. I think that if people actually practiced this "Golden Rule" the world would be a much better place.
And I know, I know... That's not the way the world is. But for me, that is the way it is. And honestly, I don't think one guy trying to put his ideals into practice is going to make things worse for anybody.

And on the topic of Nietzsche, I do think something he said holds a lot of weight, particularly in these times. And I think it was one of his most humorous quotes, although incendiary: "There was only one Christian, and he died on the cross."
I think that definitely illustrates a poignant fact about how 99% of Christians really don't know what it means to be one.

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ElephantSack

It's true that people have always believed in a higher power, but not necessarily everybody. Both sides have led to great accomplishments and great follies. But really, saying "God is dead" can mean a lot of different things, seeing as how the idea of an all-powerful creator can never be fully understood by most people, therefor opinions and ideas are infinite. So in my opinion, a lot of those Gods are deader than ****, and some of those Gods still make sense.
And I agree, man. Nothing wrong with a little love.

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Miltamec Soundsquinaez

You know what my biggest problem is with religious fundamentalists?

I've got this question that I really want to ask a fundamentalist Muslim or Christian, but have never had the balls to:

Me: (to Christian) If you had been born in the Middle East to a family of Muslims, would you be a Christian and espouse so fervently all your current beliefs?

I'm sure the answer would be something like-

Christian: Well, I probably.......uh.......the first few years maybe not ya know.......but eventually Jesus, our lord and savior, the one and only son of God would come along and lead me to the light.

See, if I ever had the courage to ask that, and they gave that answer, I would know right then, to turn around, walk away, and never talk to them again, because I would be convinced their idealogy has made them so full of s(&*, they're incapable of rational thought.

The perplexing thing is I don't think it would be a small percentage, I think almost every Christian and every Muslim and hardcore religious person truly believes they have received the word of God, and it has nothing to do with the conditioning of the environment they were raised in.

If these 'religious' people would practice a little more empathy, maybe we could all start to understand each other a little better, but I know that's certainly not a trait Jesus would have, he was too busy watching Fox News, cleaning his Winchester, and eagerly awaiting the next NASCAR event.

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ElephantSack

^^^^ See, the funny thing about that is that a person born to a Muslim family wouldn't need Christianity, because the person that is known as Jesus in the Bible, just happens to be one of the most quoted prophets in the Quran, just known by a different name. Also going to show how few people really understand what they believe in and that basically, both religions are just about the same. Two sides of the same dodecahedron.

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