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View Poll Results: What religion do you follow?
Christianity 38 20.43%
Buddhism 3 1.61%
Hinduism 1 0.54%
Islam 2 1.08%
Judaism 4 2.15%
Wiccanism 1 0.54%
Other established religion (feel free to post about it) 6 3.23%
Self-defined 25 13.44%
Don't follow any religion & don't believe in deities (atheist) 67 36.02%
Not Sure, undecided, don't know or don't care 39 20.97%
Sikhism 0 0%
Voters: 186. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-19-2015, 11:57 AM   #481 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Chula Vista View Post
Yes and no. If you think yes then being vegan is also a religion. As is deciding to live your life sans footwear. This train of thought can be taken to ridiculous lengths.
isn't it tho??

I don't know if I've met a collective of people swearing off arch supports with similar value/belief systems. Unless you're talking about the people from the trailer park???

And because it can be interpreted with extreme examples...that's why I suggested a rephrasing of the original question at the beginning of my post.

Most people are dealing with the colloquial definition of religion and not how it is strictly defined.

Speaking of which...Janz, I'd look it up for you, bud but then you wouldn't learn anything (in terms of researching for yourself). Plus, my criteria for an authoritative source might not suit your standards.

So we can shed the scales from our eyes now and agree that maybe being religious doesn't need to inherit all the bad publicity it does and rephrase the original question.

But I wanted to make it clear for all the anti-religious pundits that atheism and agnosticism are religions unto themselves, each with their own unique practices and beliefs that are perpetuated throughout those communities. Every bit the religion that "religions" are. My intent is to get everybody on not only the same page in terms of agreeing what a religion is but to provoke thinking outside the box.
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Old 12-19-2015, 12:21 PM   #482 (permalink)
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Ya, in all fairness, the original question probably should have been: Do you in any way worship a deity?
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Old 12-19-2015, 12:27 PM   #483 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hip-Hop Homework View Post
Speaking of which...Janz, I'd look it up for you, bud but then you wouldn't learn anything (in terms of researching for yourself). Plus, my criteria for an authoritative source might not suit your standards.
Yes, we're all capable of using Google, I don't need a lesson in it, thanks. I'm asking you what your "strict definition" is. You're the one that made the claim, I'm curious to know what definition you're using to justify it.
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Old 12-19-2015, 01:44 PM   #484 (permalink)
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Yes, we're all capable of using Google, I don't need a lesson in it, thanks. I'm asking you what your "strict definition" is. You're the one that made the claim, I'm curious to know what definition you're using to justify it.

Why would my interpretation, or understanding, of a religion differ from yours if we both use the word according to how it's defined, as it is intended?

I use the dictionary definition and that's what it means to me.


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Old 12-19-2015, 01:53 PM   #485 (permalink)
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Why would my interpretation, or understanding, of a religion differ from yours if we both use the word according to how it's defined, as it is intended?

I use the dictionary definition and that's what it means to me.
Really? Merriam-Webster defines religion as "the belief in a god or in a group of gods". How does that square with your contention that atheism is a religion?
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Old 12-19-2015, 02:30 PM   #486 (permalink)
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Really? Merriam-Webster defines religion as "the belief in a god or in a group of gods". How does that square with your contention that atheism is a religion?
The merriam-webster copyright expired some years ago so it's no longer the authority it once was as now anybody can print a dictionary flying under that banner; I haven't taken the time to understand how this might impact their website and its sources but I seldom use it. I find its definitions tend to be somewhat dated compared to dictionary.com's.

I prefer dictionary.com as it maintains its library of definitions quite well and I believe is a credible, authoritative source.

let's see what they have to say...

noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.


The way I see it, Iunno aboutchu, atheism fits the bill for 4/6 of the nuanced definitions. As you can see, when you consider the word as a whole, and you don't have to but I would...I don't think there's any point of contention that atheism isn't a religion. The million-dollar question is how to objectively prove atheists adhere to a specific set of beliefs or practices but I just observe the same practice atheists use for observers of other religions--personal experience. However, I acknowledge that even within a community you will not find the uniform mentality, behavior, or adherence many people would have us believe by making statements with sweeping generalizations, or painting with broad strokes if you will.

I raise the argument that atheism is a religion because many atheists/agnostics contend Christians (few are honest enough to acknowledge exception) are the same, as though that somehow allows for an objective observation knowing fully-well people vary on a case-by-case basis, at the biological level no less and all the more when it comes to creeds and ethics, even within a culture. So to say a people or a culture are all a certain way with no deviation is kinda foolish to me and doesn't stand up to logical inquiry when it comes to definition. Atheists are supposed to be champions of empirical evidence yet somehow I find that lacking in many of the suppositions you'll find in atheists dogma. It's more of a religion than you might have ever paused to acknowledge and I don't claim that to provoke anybody's sensibilities--given the definition I know, I recognize that the atheistic community fits the description and I ain't gonna deny that. I prefer to be equitable in the treatment of all parties that are subject to the debate.

You're asking questions but not returning any insight on your beliefs so I am starting to feel preachy so I'ma stay quiet as kept and politely excuse myself. This it not to be dismissive of anything with which you might reply. So don't take it that way...I'll respect your inputs but I just prolly won't reply any further.

You don't think Atheism is a religion and I do; I'm cool with that.
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Old 12-19-2015, 02:58 PM   #487 (permalink)
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You don't think Atheism is a religion and I do; I'm cool with that.
Which is why I've taken to saying "I'm nothing". I don't need a label that defines me as not believing in something that I don't believe in.
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Old 12-19-2015, 03:08 PM   #488 (permalink)
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Which is why I've taken to saying "I'm nothing". I don't need a label that defines me as not believing in something that I don't believe in.
I feel that. But I don't think labels hold much sway, at least for me they don't. They obviously carry weight for others. In my experience I've known a lotta people to say that they are a lotta things only to learn with time that what they said really isn't the case. What I'm saying is that just 'cause you say you are this...I cannot reliably make any assumptions about you based on said statement. I could make assumptions but they might prove to be unreliable. So I prefer the waiting game when it comes to judging (not read condemning) people. Plus, people are far more dimensional than a given handful of actions or things said; initial judgements/opinions are always subject to change anyway.
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Old 12-19-2015, 03:28 PM   #489 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hip-Hop Homework View Post
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
Obviously no.

Quote:
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
Atheists do not have a "fundamental set of beliefs", so no. And just because we in general respect science does not make us into a religion, otherwise you could call the scientific community itself a religion, which would stretch the definition of a religion to the point where you would need a new word to describe the worship of a deity.

Quote:
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
a world council of religions.
No. Same reason as above.

Quote:
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
to enter religion.
No, cause duh.

Quote:
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
No.

Quote:
6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
Yeah, possibly, but the example given even shows that this particular definition does not necessarily have any relation to religion as the worship of a deity, and to equate both definitions would be to make the word useless. So, no in any way that counts.
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Old 12-19-2015, 03:56 PM   #490 (permalink)
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Obviously no.



Atheists do not have a "fundamental set of beliefs", so no. And just because we in general respect science does not make us into a religion, otherwise you could call the scientific community itself a religion, which would stretch the definition of a religion to the point where you would need a new word to describe the worship of a deity.



No. Same reason as above.



No, cause duh.



No.



Yeah, possibly, but the example given even shows that this particular definition does not necessarily have any relation to religion as the worship of a deity, and to equate both definitions would be to make the word useless. So, no in any way that counts.
The simple fact that you take a position of authority in asserting there is no fundamental set of beliefs opens the floor for the argument that there is some authoritative source to support your claim (if you wanna claim credibility) and that in turn supports the notion that there is a structure from which you derive your authority...you know, something upon which a foundation is built--ergo fundamental.

But we could bicker about the semantics of beliefs and what fundamental really is all day. So that's cool if you choose to see it that way, ignoring the true meaning.

When a group of people uniformly adheres to a system of ethics or beliefs...there is a practice of fundamentalism right there. Call it what you want but if walks like a duck and talks like a duck. It could be a flying spaghetti monster. In fact, the reality is people are walking in the paths of so many religions.

Your points are based on the colloquial usage of religion in common circles, which portends to the inclusion of the many monotheistic religions and buddhism/hinduism. But the definition of religion doesn't depend on a catalog of major, world religions.

I also even looked up the merriam-webster definition and the third branch of the definition would qualify atheism as a religion.

Just saying...

Atheism might not be as organized as the religious communities that are centuries-old, but I assure you that it fits the description. You don't have to trust me though. I mean atheists have conventions, bro! If that's not a grouping of people adhering to a set of beliefs/practices (whether fundamental or not is moot at this juncture) then I don't know what to tell you if you're unwilling to recognize it for what it is.

And the scientific community embodies the definition more than any other group...it is THE MOST-structured embodiment of a religion with regards to uniform acceptance and systematic belief, permitting varying degrees of adherence within dissenting subsects...but nevertheless a system of beliefs at the core. It's the epitome of organized religion from the standpoint of rigorous academic testing of the definition. Deductive reason, part of the scientific method and the prediction is an exercise of "faith" too!

How are you not seeing that?
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