Melting Pot Vs. The Salad Bowl (Culture Wise)

TheBig3 · 10-14-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

i don't think it's particularly trashy, it sounds tasty actually. but i think that the need to construct a social identity around food and the way it's consumed is... old-fashioned, for lack of a better word. food is obviously a big part of human life, but i don't think people 'are what they eat,' it's just a thing everybody does, every person has their own tastes and turning it into a cultural thing seems meaningless to me--if it agrees with enough individual tastes it'll probably stop being a cultural thing eventually.

when you only had access to certain foods in certain regions I can see how it might define a culture, but that's not really true anymore.

Taken that way. But we don't hold meet on a stick events for the hell of it.

Its for charities, political campaigns, fund raisers, and church groups. Its seen as a venerable event. I still maintain that Americans being defined by consumerable items is flatly wrong.

Guybrush · 10-14-2009, 05:29 PM

I think your definition of culture is a bit weird too. In this kind of discussion, I think of culture as basically everything about groups of people which makes them distinct from other groups of people - except biology (though cultural differences may be caused by differences in biology). So it has to do with behaviour, values and so on.

Since you're concerned with capitalism and how it affects culture, couldn't you say that America has a culture of consumerism? You have comparatively more of it than we do, so it is one of the things that add to the distinctness of your culture compared to ours.

TheBig3 · 10-14-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toretorden

I think your definition of culture is a bit weird too. In this kind of discussion, I think of culture as basically everything about groups of people which makes them distinct from other groups of people - except biology (though cultural differences may be caused by differences in biology). So it has to do with behaviour, values and so on.

Since you're concerned with capitalism and how it affects culture, couldn't you say that America has a culture of consumerism? You have comparatively more of it than we do, so it is one of the things that add to the distinctness of your culture compared to ours.

I could say that but since two or three people have already in this thread, I'd pass.

Note that I never brought up our capitalism, or our consumerism, but was responding to the charge directly.

I don't think we're defined by conservatism, I think much of this thread is inspired by a hot-topic media charge rather than what actually goes on in the streets and neighborhoods of America.

dark shadow · 10-14-2009, 08:18 PM

if culture is defined as the differences between groups of people, than eventually it will boil down to class. for many decades in this country racism was the big issue regarding culture. if you were black, you do this. white, you do this. mexican, you do this. asian, you do this. however, today with equality enjoying almost unprecedented acceptance, the differences in the way people are living is becoming more dependent on class than any other factor.

sure, people still hold fond memories of other places, my family is mexican and celebrates cinco de mayo, for instance. however, most of the town, including people of other ethnic backgrounds, celebrates as well as more a day of fun and food than of any great cultural importance. however, even in a small town the rich buy anything theyd like, handing out $400 dollar cell phones to 12 year old kids who replace their stolen ipod touch every other week as it is.

the poor or middle class, however, can't do this. they place an emphasis on frugality and responsibility, if you lose something, its just gone simple as that. while in a middle class family you may still enjoy many of the same luxuries, they were just that: luxuries. status symbols such as ipods, cell phones, cars, and clothes mean much more to these people, in general.

this discrepancy doesnt hold any inherent danger, different people can afford different things its a simple fact of life. however, in my experience this eventually breeds a feeling of superiority over those who are less fortunate. thus the classes become more and more defined, with the rich living lives surrounded by status symbols and endless luxuries, while the middle class lives comfortably if unremarkably and the poor just try to survive. these differences create "cultures" and "subcultures"

ProggyMan · 10-14-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

i think the more isolated, rural regions have a better idea of identity, mainly because they define themselves negatively against the perceived corruption and immorality of the big cities, or whatever. whether or not this actually translates to 'culture,' i'm not sure, i think of culture more as artistic/religious legacies which are perpetually reborn/reformed by new generations. and i think culture in that sense is mostly present in the cities, but it's a very confused, self-reflective sort of culture, which doesn't have the roots to be fully comfortable with itself. i think most of the issues one region of america has with the others are mostly superficial, everyone either thinks they and their group are morally superior or that they are more intelligent and everybody else is stuck in the middle ages. i'm tempted to say that california is the exception, where a genuine culture of ideas draws 'outsiders' in, but at this point it's mostly the weed, isn't it? the differences seem to me to be either consumerist (californians smoke pot, new yorkers go to art galleries) or endless religious bickering. i do think the personality of america is very schizophrenic, which is probably what you were getting at, to the point where two radically different personalities (the New York intellectual and midwest conservative, for instance) can both strike us as archetypally american, but there is no american as such. i don't think there's enough history behind these personas, however, to really lift them past their superficiality (the history that does support intellectuals and conservatives, say, is mostly borrowed from europe), and for this reason america doesn't really have a culture. and if it does, it's crumbling faster than anyplace else.

modernism, for instance, is usually associated with america and considered our cultural legacy, but it's just a rebellion against europe's formalism, for the most part.

Hella untrue. I hella heart Berkeley. And Oakland. I hella shop at Berkeley Bowl. Been here since 1977.

TheBig3 · 10-15-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProggyMan

Hella untrue. I hella heart Berkeley. And Oakland. I hella shop at Berkeley Bowl. Been here since 1977.

I don't know whether I should laugh or slap you, but I laughed despite myself...and I laughed wicked hard.

savannah · 10-15-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

nobody's going to think 'meat on a stick' is barbaric, they'll probably just think it's trashy. i mean, it's just different modes of consumerism, isn't it? i don't even want to talk about chicago, it's so full of hipsters you can hardly breathe without someone parodying it.

on a side note,....

texans would totally embrace meat on a stick,....

just sayin

ProggyMan · 10-15-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

I don't know whether I should laugh or slap you, but I laughed despite myself...and I laughed wicked hard.

Spent any time in NorCal recently lol?

10-14-2009, 05:29 PM	#22 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I think your definition of culture is a bit weird too. In this kind of discussion, I think of culture as basically everything about groups of people which makes them distinct from other groups of people - except biology (though cultural differences may be caused by differences in biology). So it has to do with behaviour, values and so on. Since you're concerned with capitalism and how it affects culture, couldn't you say that America has a culture of consumerism? You have comparatively more of it than we do, so it is one of the things that add to the distinctness of your culture compared to ours. __________________ Something Completely Different

10-14-2009, 08:18 PM	#24 (permalink)
dark shadow Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 78	if culture is defined as the differences between groups of people, than eventually it will boil down to class. for many decades in this country racism was the big issue regarding culture. if you were black, you do this. white, you do this. mexican, you do this. asian, you do this. however, today with equality enjoying almost unprecedented acceptance, the differences in the way people are living is becoming more dependent on class than any other factor. sure, people still hold fond memories of other places, my family is mexican and celebrates cinco de mayo, for instance. however, most of the town, including people of other ethnic backgrounds, celebrates as well as more a day of fun and food than of any great cultural importance. however, even in a small town the rich buy anything theyd like, handing out $400 dollar cell phones to 12 year old kids who replace their stolen ipod touch every other week as it is. the poor or middle class, however, can't do this. they place an emphasis on frugality and responsibility, if you lose something, its just gone simple as that. while in a middle class family you may still enjoy many of the same luxuries, they were just that: luxuries. status symbols such as ipods, cell phones, cars, and clothes mean much more to these people, in general. this discrepancy doesnt hold any inherent danger, different people can afford different things its a simple fact of life. however, in my experience this eventually breeds a feeling of superiority over those who are less fortunate. thus the classes become more and more defined, with the rich living lives surrounded by status symbols and endless luxuries, while the middle class lives comfortably if unremarkably and the poor just try to survive. these differences create "cultures" and "subcultures"