Yup, with the possibility of other dimensions in mind, for example...

Without any sort of quality control filtering out the likely from the unlikely, you are at great risk of believing in something which is not true. Does that not bother you?

Who says I don't have a filter? If nothing happens, nothing happens. I'm going to act like normally. My senses are very in tune and I know how to not expect anything when I am, if nothing's there. Um, I have been alive for quite awhile and been through old, old establishments and walked away with thousands of impressions from all senses and have a pretty good idea what feels right and what doesn't.
The "risk (of what IDK) is greater" to not believe (you unfairly shut the door on yourself in my eyes) in something that could be true.

The risk is of you being wrong, of you investing yourself in fantasies as if they are real. It could very well be that you don't mind taking that risk because believing in a fantasy is okay with you, but I am not okay with that. I want my idea of the universe to be as close as possible to the actual truth.

If I believe in the general idea of ghosts, that means believing that human consciousness can exist independent of physical matter as we know it today. It means believing that things with an ethereal existence can manipulate matter or enter the minds of others. It means there is some resemblance of life after death. Depending on what I believe the nature of ghosts to be, many more assumptions will have to follow. None of these assumptions currently have much credibility as they are not supported by evidence and each one of them could be wrong. In other words, believing in ghosts is likely to lead me to make many wrong assumptions about the universe.

My idea of the universe is closer to the truth than yours is bc I didnt shut any doors on myself. No, Im not okay w fantasies - I prefer the tangible and I am a truthseeker who knows no bounds to uncover it.
Einstein said that the past, present, and future are all happening at once which can explain paranormal.

Let's say you have 100 conflicting beliefs the universe. One of them is correct. You don't get the right idea about the universe by unquestioningly accepting the 99 false ones. ;)

He did? Do you have a source to back that up?

Einstein said "people like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion".

Do you know what he was commenting when he said that, what he was referring to? There is no present because the now is what you perceive, but your perception is lagged. By the time the light of an event has happened reaches your eyes and is converted into information by your brain, the event has already happened. So we are never actually experiencing a present. And while two events may seem like they take place at the same time from one reference point, the events will look like they take place at separate times from other reference points.

There's more to it, but long story short, it doesn't really relate to day to day paranormal going-ons.

You shouldn't just pull quotes out of the air unless you understand them, especially not from physicists. You are aware that physics, particularly quantum physics, is the most mistreated "scientific" explanation of all? Its mystery coupled with difficulty to understand makes it a favorite go-to for healers, ghost hunters and others who needs a little scientific credibility and don't have the understanding to see how silly it is.

edit :

Because I like the topic, I think I can illustrate how everything happens at the same time. Think of events happening, and time/history if you will, as a music on a tape loop. What you can hear of that music depends on where you place the reader, as it were. Lets just say you place the reader in the middle of the tape. You hear the music playing in the middle of the tape, but the tape is still moving before the reader and after the reader. Had you placed the reader in a different place, you would have heard the music before or after the middle. In other words, the whole tape is playing at once, but you're only perceiving it from one place. In a similar way, all events in our universe are playing, but we happen to be reading events at a specific place on the "time tape" (the "present"). If you were placed in what we think of as the past, the future wouldn't somehow pause, it would still be playing.

Also, the time tape plays for us at a certain speed, but that speed is relative and can be slowed down by going extremely fast. So if you go super fast, time passes slower.

I can't say for sure because it's all a bit difficult - and perhaps time shouldn't be described as a loop, but I think this is along the lines of what Einstein was thinking.

It is NOT that simple...
You believe in one thing; that ghosts aren't real, not even that they might not be real.
I believe in four things; that ghosts might not be real and that they might be real.
You have more risk of believing in something that is untrue than I do, as a result.

The following tells you provided it as you seem to have more time on your hands than I do to argue in circles about something you have no proof DOESN'T exist. I read your similar long-winded opinions on rape in that thread and decided I don't agree with those either days ago, TBH and saw how you browbeat your opponent into believing he was less intelligent and uninformed for having his own, separate belief. Unfortunately I am not going to give you any leeway or hat tipping for having what I consider to be tunnel vision...
My instincts are telling me something is wrong here and I'm going to have to ask you to refrain from interacting/socializing, and communicating with me in any way, shape, or form from hereon. :(
Any reply after the fact I will ignore so don't mistake it for silently agreeing. Like I said I refuse to adopt a narrower field of vision by closing any doors on the matter.

The problem with control freaks is they fail to understand I can and should defend what I stand for if I very well please. It is my opinion, regardless of not being similar to yours, and I am allowed to have them as is anyone else with those different from yours. Please tell me you can accept this as I would be relieved to find I am wrong about you...
Again, people whose viewpoints differ from yours are not silly. The fantasy/misconception everything is black and white and can be put into boxes through science is false. Watch the video I first pasted in this thread. Nobody knows everything, despite numbers, and there are things going on about the universe we do not understand and I am okay with that. It is an open book for me and my mind, a blank canvas, to form my own interpretations the way I want. The truth is stranger than fiction, said Mark Twain. To me this means the explanation may be stranger than ghosts and why I suggested other dimensions, and Einstein's time theory. I hope you speaking on his behalf is really his line of thinking and not your own, because the way I understand it is both "your" interpretation of his quote and the possibility we leave emotional imprints behind...

Ok this just told me what I suspected, ugh.
Have a nice day and life though. It's 5 AM here. Remember what I "said"/typed in color...

I watched the movie Looper. It's perfectly fine to describe time as a loop.

I could give a **** about getting into this argument, but this pisses me off. You seem to lack a legitimate argument, so instead you basically just call Tore a loser for "having more time on his hands than you do". That's ****ing pathetic. If you have nothing to say then don't say anything, but don't take it out on other people like that.

Edit: I don't even know why I just let a troll bate me. Still, I'm not going to delete this, just because I think she needs to get called out for what she said to Tore.

I believe he was saying the misuse of the word quantum to sell any manner of fruit-loopery is what was silly.

Lol omg why does the typical male always blow up @ me like this Ill never know but Ive found the twisted silver lining...

If I could go anywhere in the world to investigate these things it wouldnt be outside the US for now. Yes, there's probably something in many European castles but bc Ive studied it so much throughout the yrs, I feel a connection to (and I choose) The Myrtles Plantation.

There is suspicion that a faulty internal clock could be behind hallucinations associated with schizophrenia, for instance when an internal thought is mistakenly perceived as having been spoken by someone else.

I'm as skeptical as it gets, but my mom is a paranormal investigator in her free time and has founbd some pretty weird and inexplicable things. sometimes I want to believe, but at the same time, i don't believe in religion, and unfortunately, most of the people my mom collaborates with in her ghostly efforts are extremely christian, despite my mom being agnostic. unfortunately, these extremely christian people come up with crazy explanations in their fantastical minds. Once, one of them almost got an exorcism to happen until my mom thought it was a load of hooey.

Hey CrazyVegn, do you believe in psychics?

If so, will you be open minded enough to let me read you?

We would need to be on some sort of chat though. Perhaps the shoutbox?

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/7056/sqdl.jpg

^Seeing her picture told me just now I'm in love w/ her...
I have a Yahoo msgr...

I don't.
Will you be around here about 5:30 CTD tomorrow? I think the easiest way would be the shoutbox. I just need to ask questions quickly and getting answers before losing the thread (I don't mean forum thread). It doesn't matter where, but I'd prefer something easy, since it doesn't last long. I don't want to have to install stuff. Shoutbox is probably the easiest. I need to be able to not have to focus on controlling some foreign program to me.

Yes, what is that in MST, 6:30 PM?

No I think you're an hour earlier. I could be wrong though.

That's two things

I don't think so. You now claim to believe in conflicting ideas, that ghosts are real and that they are not real. The two are direct opposites; evidence for one is evidence against the other. You just can't believe in both at the same time because believing in one means not believing in the other, but you can be open to the possibility of both - and I am. If evidence is in favour of ghosts, I will change my beliefs. But you're confusing being open to the possibility of with believing in.

Either you believe or you don't believe or you're undecided/don't know. If you want to understand the universe you live in, you can't be undecided or ignorant on all the big topics.

Generally speaking, there's no proof of anything. You don't have proof that you're not a flower dreaming that you are you. Your whole life could be an illusion. There's probably evidence that suggests otherwise, but not actual proof. Since we basically can't prove anything, your point about lacking proof is moot. We build our understanding of the world with evidence, not proof, and evidence suggests ghost are not real.

So you believe rape is sometimes the fault of the victim? Fine, that's a topic for that thread. But did I really browbeat someone in there? I'd like for you to show me where, although it might be best to do it in that thread so that we don't derail this one.

Hm, why this now? You've already replied to me and from what I can tell, more arguments are to follow. If you don't want to discuss, why are you on a discussion forum discussing with me? Isn't it your responsibility to back out of this situation if it's not something you want?

I have no problem accepting that. The reason I am discussing this is because this is a discussion forum and the whole point of it is to challenge ideas and opinions by testing them against others. I love for my ideas to get challenged.

You accuse me for browbeating. If I get to accuse you of something back, it would be of acting like you're under attack when partaking in harmless discussion. Is this so dangerous? Why are you so defensive?

I mean it's silly to use quantum physics to explain paranormal phenomena when you don't understand quantum physics. Very few people do!

Of course nobody knows everything, but we're piecing our understanding of the universe bit by bit, not by proof (impossible), but by evidence. The computer you're using to write on MB on, do you think that was made possible with the attitude that we can just interpret the universe however we like? No, it wasn't. It was made possible by figuring out how the universe works. The way forward is best achieved by building upon what we know, not by random leaps into the unknown, be it ghosts or religion or crystal healing.

The universe has natural laws that makes it work in predictable ways. Looking at our modern society, do you think studying those laws is futile?

I am trying to explain the ideas of Einstein regarding time, a somewhat daunting task. I am just humble to the possibility that I might not portray his thoughts accurately. If you need some reassurance, I am pretty sure I got the important bits right, regarding why past and future happens at the same time.

I won't forget it, but don't forget that you continued providing arguments after your message. If you don't want to discuss this, then you should simply cease to do so. If it's only my posts you have a problem with, I suggest you put me on your ignore list. Then you won't see any of my posts.

Tore if you weren't married I would totally marry you on intelligence alone. Don't even get me started on your sexiness! ;)

Oh Vanilla! Maybe in the next life we could hook up, get married and have some sexy-ass, intelligent children. Who knows? :love:

:love:

I think that is an excellent idea! And of course I would learn Norwegian and you'd sing to me and I'd be the best wife ever, I'd bake you cakes and muffins. What a wonderful fantasy. ;)

I hadn't finished what I intended to write there and it was 5 AM. In fact, you've woken me up again (although I suspect you tried not to) @ 7:30 AM. If you cannot stand the rights of other people, can you at least wait until around noon? - I work at nights/early morning.
Your sense of time is funny bc I have stood my ground on what I believe as if you were never here in the first place.

I can do what I want... and yes, it's possible to keep both extremes in mind (both ends of the spectrum and all colors in between) in regards to beliefs depending on days events, current emotions, etc..
You've just changed your original stance now!.. Unlike you, though, I'm not going to assume it is the other who caused anything.

I'm not ignorant or undecided, but have you told yourself that to help your case? Someone already told themselves I have nothing to say...

This is so untrue, LOL... I'm not even going to go there. You are proof despite evidence you will tell yourself what you want to in order to not look like a fool. Again, watch the first video I posted. Besides that, become more aware of your environment and fine tune yours like I have, to receive (or not) any communications we're not accustomed to.
Um, what? This is completely different...

You better catch up bc I've already thought of this YEARS ago. It gets even MORE complicated than that... but you don't appear to have the capacity I have for spiritual evolution. Maybe I am wrong; I'm starting to see what might be budging on your part which is good bc you'll start seeing people and your world in color now.

No, I don't believe it is their faults... It was something else about porno (maybe it was THAT thread)? At the end the counterarguer pretended to be defeated (just to get rid of you) by saying he thought he was caveman like in comparison to you. I read between the lines there...
Can you find what I'm trying to remember now? From what I could tell you had one source and you were rolling with it as if it's the big picture... which is why I didn't comment in the first place and at the time. You're doing kinda the same thing here by what I suspect is looking around you and seeing no spirits walking around, talking. It doesn't work like that.
Same... it gives me the chance to shine. :cool:

Absolutely not dangerous, but you could be for all I know. I'm hoping you're not despite still "believing in ghosts". As you may know sometimes it's not good to disagree w/ certain personality types and by some of the things you've said... (I highlighted them)

Let me spell it out for you: Because I am defending my belief in the supernatural. If no one has defended their position from you on philosophical, theory, or any other subject but me I am honored to be the first. It sure seems like I am ATM. If they haven't for you in RL makes me wonder why not. Do they sense you will not leave them alone?..

Eeeek...

No. Why must someone be an anti-intellectual, science hater, ignorant, or the like if they are spiritual?
The universe might have natural laws that make it work in unpredictable ways as well...

There's no one on my ignore list bc I want to keep an open mind to all ideas even if they are contrary to mine. The ("good and evil") contrasts, trines, squares, and oppositions make life beautiful for me and help me to see better.

You know, since this is not communication in real time, noone requires you to get out of bed to reply to this. Take your time with it if you want.

Alright .. I want you to be honest about your beliefs, of course, regardless of whether I am here or not.

So some days you believe in ghosts and some days you don't? I think a belief sounds pretty shallow and ill-defined to yourself personally if it has to share belief with ideas that directly oppose it. You claim to be able to believe that God exists and that God does not exist at the same time. With how much conviction?

I didn't change my stance. If you think I did, you misunderstand. I believe that ghosts do not exist, but I am open to the possibility .. as I am open to the possibility of most things. If evidence favors ghosts, I will change my beliefs.

If you can swap your belief for another any day, then that belief just sounds baseless to me as in not well founded. That gives me the impression that you may be ignorant on the reasons why ghosts should not exist. The impression you are undecided is something I got because you say you change your beliefs, f.ex according to mood or day.

The problem of proving something is a fundamental philosophical issue. I guess you must have heard the words Cogito Ergo Sum which roughly means I doubt, therefore I think, hence I exist. It is the only thing famous philosopher Rene Descartes thought he knew for certain: that he could think and therefore existed. Everything else in his world could be an illusion.

In science, things are not actually proven. You have a theory, ex. the theory of gravity, and that is supported by confirmed hypotheses, studies and experiments. F.ex an experiment in which you drop 100 balls may confirm that balls tend to drop to the earth when you hold them up and let go and that may support the theory of gravity. It can be statistically proven, but not really Proven with a big P. How do you really know one of the balls won't suddenly fall the other way and disappear up in the sky? However, let's say you 10 000 such studies and the balls never fall upwards, the evidence that gravity exists and behaves according to some predictable rules may seem overwhelming.

So CrazyVegn, Descartes couldn't prove he's not a flower. How would you do it?

You can see me budding? And by the way, in my opinion, I am the more spiritually advanced between the two of us. :p:

I am not simply looking around me and seeing no ghosts. There is a lot of philosophy behind my position on this, much of which I feel defines me as a person. My non-belief in ghosts is the result of a complicated structure of ideas based on some simple ideals and it's all pretty much thought through and through many times over. I'm the sort of person who wants a rational answer to everything and that's not simple.

So you moderate your behaviour here from fear of me?

By far, you are not the first I've had a philosophical discussion with.

You know, comments like this are a little offensive. But while I think they're idiotic, I'm not gonna hack your computer or come after you in any way other than by forum posting. You seem paranoid.

I don't think they have to be, but a more honest answer is that rational thoughts and ideas often come into conflict with religious ideas, superstitions etc. Most people can't hold two conflicting beliefs in their head at the same time. One will outcompete the other. A very religious person turning into a rational critic would likely start to replace religious ideas with scientific or more rational ideas.

That's an admirable attitude.

Just because you are used to people that are fanatical about their beliefs and hold such strong conviction for them doesn't mean that there are people out there who have a belief but are willing and able to let the belief go in light of new evidence. I happen to be similar to your position but I'm on the other side of the fence. I really want to believe that there ghosts exists and I feel like they may but I also know currently that the amount of evidence to prove that ghost are real/exist is sketchy at best/non-existent.




Just because she seems paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get her. ;)




I don't feel like it's such an impossible thing to have happen. A very religious person could one day decide that they have lost faith and become rational. It has happen many times or they wake up and start to question the religion that they have been following blindly for years. It happened with a fellow member of ours that had to depart which shall remain nameless and I'm sure it has happened to other members who grew up religious but are now atheist as an adult.

tore,
You think you are better than everybody here ( including me of all ppl ) spiritually and intellectually, yet I know I am better than you in both ways and more. Someone pointed out to me you are full of yourself but I am full of myself as well. So what is the point in continuing our little discussion unless you're just lonely? In which case I am not interested.

:laughing:

Great way to end it, Vegn.

:laughing: all tell & no show again.

"aheheh" :)

YOU full of yourself? Say it isn't so? I can't believe that at all!

Wait, what?

;o)
Urban is jealous or wants a peepshow, dj.

or neither

^or both...

That was you?

Apparently?

Tore is one of, if not the most, respected member on this site, so this sounds like made-up BS. You are definitely a troll.

^Grow up already, BL... (been dying to say that to you forever)

It's not made up BS.
Human beings tell themselves whatever they need to during a disagreement and or if they are having a hard time digesting something, like I'm a troll, for example. The problem I encounter with most egos is they have nothing to show for it. I do.
Hate to tell you this but tore is by far not the most intelligent counterarguer I've dealt with on the subject of ghosts. If that's all you guys have that's sad. Of course you have me, but there's the mentality I am too good to be true.

Anyway I was going to document (write a log) here about my stay at the infamously haunted hotel but I'm already defeated before beginning.