Music Education in Public Schools

Astronomer · 02-01-2010, 05:04 PM

I think music education should remain as an extra-curricular subject to the main subjects. That is, music education should be grouped with the same status of classes such as art, for example.

mr dave · 02-01-2010, 05:10 PM

as an option for a 2nd tier class on the same level as one of the 'trade' classes (metalshop / woodworking / home ec / etc.) that would be great. for us, the extra curricular meant after classes, like a sports program, little wonder it failed.

duga · 02-01-2010, 08:53 PM

second option for me. there are more benefits that come with music than just listening and having fun. it forces your brain to use different areas and to think in different ways. after all, there is research showing that babies and small children that listen to classical music end up being above average once they get to school. i think it also helps to legitimize music. if you are exposing it to kids in an academic setting, they won't feel apprehensive about pursuing it if it is something they really love.

my elementary (primary) school was quite poor, yet we managed to hang on to a music program. it wasn't the best, but it exposed all of us to it. if a crap school like that can keep its music program...ANY school can.

Cadrian · 02-01-2010, 09:28 PM

Your Selections are....

Yes, Music education should be top priority
Muisc education should be in public schools, but second to actual subjects
No, let any musical education be private.

Ummm why cant it be equal? If your going to have a class I think it should equal priority as everything else that is taught.

I had Music in Elementary and in Middle School... Elementary was just singing bull**** sing along songs.

Middle School was that only time I really remember ever having Music... and It consisted of watching Sound of Music and Amadeus, I remember things about the class vaguely... But I do remeber something really cool. Every class at the end for last 15mins we listened to music everyone brought in. I found out about alot of music that way. I was 12 at the time and it exposed me to alot of music I never heard of.

In High School there was just band... **** band.

If your going to going to have a class it should be the same priority as everything else.

I guess the real question is do kids gain anything from learning about music.... I would say yes, I remeber learning alot about history and the times based on the music of the period. And as kids I think music can give kids alot of understanding of the world that they might not understand, so it is good for them to be exposed to all types.

lucifer_sam · 02-01-2010, 09:43 PM

No

The last thing public schools need is another worthless requirement for graduation. How about we improve the existing curriculum and promote proficiency in language and mathematics first? Not to mention "music education" sounds like it's promoting idolatry for music's ritualistic tenets -- something I wouldn't want to subject to my children, or anyone else's for that matter.

Astronomer · 02-01-2010, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

No

The last thing public schools need is another worthless requirement for graduation. How about we improve the existing curriculum and promote proficiency in language and mathematics first? Not to mention "music education" sounds like it's promoting idolatry for music's ritualistic tenets -- something I wouldn't want to subject to my children, or anyone else's for that matter.

I agree, music shouldn't be held as high on the priority list as literacy and numeracy, but I think it should still be included in the education system to a lesser extent, like art is. It's a fact that learning music helps children be better at maths and singing/ clapping helps with coordination and vocal articulation. Not to mention the fact that it encourages self-expression and creativity.

I definitely think music should be included in primary school level just as art is. I think in high school it should be included as an elective for those who want to do it.

Fruitonica · 02-02-2010, 04:18 AM

Yes, music definitely should at least be an elective class. That allows it to be more complex than a compulsory subject which has to cater to all the students who have no real interest. I'm not sure how High School is run in America, but in Aus we pick electives in our third year of high school.

Music was a standard class for my first two years of high school, and I loved the classes but mainly because it involved grabbing guitars and lounging around with friends in a park, it was 80% practical and was basically accepted as something approaching a free period. When exam time came around I would become mildly proficient at some song on piano, and maybe I could have been pretty decent if I had an ounce of motivation in my body but whatever, quite a few people from my class stuck with it and chose the elective, and after four more years they were fairly skilled musicians.

What you described sounded much more theory based and I'm pretty sure I would have hated it and not learned a thing. Are you assuming that most public US schools couldn't afford instruments?

TheBig3 · 02-02-2010, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadrian

Your Selections are....

Yes, Music education should be top priority
Muisc education should be in public schools, but second to actual subjects
No, let any musical education be private.

Ummm why cant it be equal? If your going to have a class I think it should equal priority as everything else that is taught.

You're suggesting Math and Science are not top priorities, and they have been since we lagged behind in the space race.

The only option I didn't put on there was music should come before all other subjects, which I left off because even on this board no ones that much of a god damn hippy.

Arya Stark · 02-02-2010, 09:01 AM

Although music takes a lot of tme and practice, studies show that children who play music are better with grades in general.

Burning Down · 02-02-2010, 09:05 AM

I voted for the second option. Even though I'm a music major in university and will probably be teaching in the school system in the next 5 years or so, I really do think that core subjects like English and Math are more useful in one's daily life. Music and Math actually have a lot in common (division and addition being two major commonalities), but in order to learn music properly, one must be well versed in basic arithmetic skills. My point is that a student needs to learn some mathematics before they can have fun learning an instrument. I also mentioned English - that's a no-brainer. When I watch TV or surf the Internet, heck even surfing this very forum, I see way too many grammatical errors and spelling mistakes. I also remember hearing somewhere that only 40% or so of Americans read at least ONE book last year? I don't remember where I heard that but it shocked me.

Music is a mandatory course throughout elementary and middle school here. In high school it is an elective course. A very popular one for that matter, because many students believe it's an easy credit if they can blow a few notes into an instrument or strum some chords on a guitar. Not so, and the course itself is really not necessary unless the student wants to pursue music in post-secondary education. Music education needs to be available in middle school and high school for this reason because post secondary institutions generally don't regard private lessons as acceptable credits as they don't focus as much on theory and the history of music as much as schools do. That being said, universities consider private instruction to be a huge asset for students because they are generally more proficient on their instrument. I have both private lessons and high school music credits to my name.

All universities and most colleges in my province require at least one senior math credit (either a grade 11 or 12 math course), a 70% average in grade 12 English, and a 65% - 75% overall average to apply to a music program, depending on which institution you are applying to. Bottom line: To achieve those averages, a student needs to take the core credits before they take music! Of course, the student needs at least a 75% in grade 12 music, but that's only looked at after you've met the other grade requirements.

Sorry for the essay, but there was no way to condense this!

View Poll Results: Should music education be omnipresent in public schools?
Yes, Music education should be top priority	4	15.38%
Muisc education should be in public schools, but second to actual subjects	18	69.23%
No, let any musical education be private.	4	15.38%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

02-01-2010, 05:04 PM	#11 (permalink)
Astronomer we are stardust Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 2,894	I think music education should remain as an extra-curricular subject to the main subjects. That is, music education should be grouped with the same status of classes such as art, for example. __________________

02-01-2010, 08:53 PM	#13 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	second option for me. there are more benefits that come with music than just listening and having fun. it forces your brain to use different areas and to think in different ways. after all, there is research showing that babies and small children that listen to classical music end up being above average once they get to school. i think it also helps to legitimize music. if you are exposing it to kids in an academic setting, they won't feel apprehensive about pursuing it if it is something they really love. my elementary (primary) school was quite poor, yet we managed to hang on to a music program. it wasn't the best, but it exposed all of us to it. if a crap school like that can keep its music program...ANY school can. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

02-01-2010, 09:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
lucifer_sam Unrepentant Ass-Mod Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,921	No The last thing public schools need is another worthless requirement for graduation. How about we improve the existing curriculum and promote proficiency in language and mathematics first? Not to mention "music education" sounds like it's promoting idolatry for music's ritualistic tenets -- something I wouldn't want to subject to my children, or anyone else's for that matter. __________________ first.am

02-01-2010, 09:28 PM	#14 (permalink)
Cadrian Music Addict Join Date: May 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 111	Your Selections are.... Yes, Music education should be top priority Muisc education should be in public schools, but second to actual subjects No, let any musical education be private. Ummm why cant it be equal? If your going to have a class I think it should equal priority as everything else that is taught. I had Music in Elementary and in Middle School... Elementary was just singing bull** sing along songs. Middle School was that only time I really remember ever having Music... and It consisted of watching Sound of Music and Amadeus, I remember things about the class vaguely... But I do remeber something really cool. Every class at the end for last 15mins we listened to music everyone brought in. I found out about alot of music that way. I was 12 at the time and it exposed me to alot of music I never heard of. In High School there was just band... ** band. If your going to going to have a class it should be the same priority as everything else. I guess the real question is do kids gain anything from learning about music.... I would say yes, I remeber learning alot about history and the times based on the music of the period. And as kids I think music can give kids alot of understanding of the world that they might not understand, so it is good for them to be exposed to all types.

02-02-2010, 04:18 AM	#17 (permalink)
Fruitonica Pale and Wan Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aus Posts: 917	Yes, music definitely should at least be an elective class. That allows it to be more complex than a compulsory subject which has to cater to all the students who have no real interest. I'm not sure how High School is run in America, but in Aus we pick electives in our third year of high school. Music was a standard class for my first two years of high school, and I loved the classes but mainly because it involved grabbing guitars and lounging around with friends in a park, it was 80% practical and was basically accepted as something approaching a free period. When exam time came around I would become mildly proficient at some song on piano, and maybe I could have been pretty decent if I had an ounce of motivation in my body but whatever, quite a few people from my class stuck with it and chose the elective, and after four more years they were fairly skilled musicians. What you described sounded much more theory based and I'm pretty sure I would have hated it and not learned a thing. Are you assuming that most public US schools couldn't afford instruments?

02-02-2010, 09:05 AM	#20 (permalink)
Burning Down The Music Guru. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Beyond the Wall Posts: 4,858	I voted for the second option. Even though I'm a music major in university and will probably be teaching in the school system in the next 5 years or so, I really do think that core subjects like English and Math are more useful in one's daily life. Music and Math actually have a lot in common (division and addition being two major commonalities), but in order to learn music properly, one must be well versed in basic arithmetic skills. My point is that a student needs to learn some mathematics before they can have fun learning an instrument. I also mentioned English - that's a no-brainer. When I watch TV or surf the Internet, heck even surfing this very forum, I see way too many grammatical errors and spelling mistakes. I also remember hearing somewhere that only 40% or so of Americans read at least ONE book last year? I don't remember where I heard that but it shocked me. Music is a mandatory course throughout elementary and middle school here. In high school it is an elective course. A very popular one for that matter, because many students believe it's an easy credit if they can blow a few notes into an instrument or strum some chords on a guitar. Not so, and the course itself is really not necessary unless the student wants to pursue music in post-secondary education. Music education needs to be available in middle school and high school for this reason because post secondary institutions generally don't regard private lessons as acceptable credits as they don't focus as much on theory and the history of music as much as schools do. That being said, universities consider private instruction to be a huge asset for students because they are generally more proficient on their instrument. I have both private lessons and high school music credits to my name. All universities and most colleges in my province require at least one senior math credit (either a grade 11 or 12 math course), a 70% average in grade 12 English, and a 65% - 75% overall average to apply to a music program, depending on which institution you are applying to. Bottom line: To achieve those averages, a student needs to take the core credits before they take music! Of course, the student needs at least a 75% in grade 12 music, but that's only looked at after you've met the other grade requirements. Sorry for the essay, but there was no way to condense this!