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Old 04-01-2010, 05:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I mean whether you agree with the ethics or not (which I won't take sides on), what isn't in harmony with what? I've studied the bible for a long time and maybe it's something i've come across before.
It's not like it's some tiny little detail I'm talking about here, the whole thing is rife with inconsistencies both big and small. Maybe an example will help you understand where I'm coming from: How can one possibly reconcile the idea of forgiveness with the flood story?
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:42 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Ah...well I won't keep at it then if you don't want me to.

I just want to point out that I was raised a Catholic and studied the bible for years myself. During those years, the parts pointed out on that website were conveniently left out. After doing a little research, all of those gospels and passages are there. There is a way to lead a Christian life the right way. My grandmother is the most devout Catholic I have ever met, and she should be considered a saint. I still think it is important to realize, if you are to follow the word of the bible to the t, that includes these passages pointed out on the website.

Fair. I don't like taking sides in moral debates or really discussing what I believe in on here. I'm a pretty private person when it comes to that kind of stuff. When I said inconsistencies I meant from more a chronological/arc perspective.

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How can one possibly reconcile the idea of forgiveness with the flood story?
One way to think of it.

To be forgiven you must repent. Just because God is forgiving of evil-doers when they sincerely repent of their sins doesn't mean he can tolerate them forever. If that were the case then those who serve him faithfully, by his standards, would see that they didn't really need to. If God, who created the sinners in the first place, wants them to live by his moral standards of what is right and wrong but they repeatedly don't, even after being warned (and in the flood story, they were warned by Noah and his family of the impending flood) - he has to take action.

So, although God is, and his subjects are commanded to be, forgiving of people when they er and ask sincere forgiveness from their wrong course... this doesn't mean that when somebody does something wrong and shows no remorse it should be ignored or accepted.

This isn't to say human being should take matters into their own hands when it comes to forgiveness. If somebody ers you and doesn't care, ask forgiveness, show remorse, etc - you should let go of that. You, as an imperfect human don't have the authority God has, and you want to be peaceable with your fellow man.

Just my understanding.

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Old 04-01-2010, 07:14 PM   #33 (permalink)
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To get this thread back on topic, what the fuck? I want to kill these people just for saying this. It's beyond twisted **** to protest anyone's funeral for anything. But this is just... I can't even put into words how much it pisses me off. The worst part about it is, do those stupid fuckers even realize what they're doing? The only reason they have the right to do **** like this is that the Marines are over there, risking their lives every day to protect our freedoms. Matthew Snyder died to defend people like them. And they're going to go to his funeral like that? I'm not going to lie, if any of my friends are killed in action and some little fucks decide to protest their funeral, I don't think I'll be able to hold myself back.
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Old 04-01-2010, 09:34 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Janszoon View Post
It's not like it's some tiny little detail I'm talking about here, the whole thing is rife with inconsistencies both big and small. Maybe an example will help you understand where I'm coming from: How can one possibly reconcile the idea of forgiveness with the flood story?
God gave the "wicked people" Noah as an example to follow, that is how God shown His mercy to them through Noah and his arc, but instead they ignored what Noah was doing, for some reason they couldn't understand the writing on the wall, that a giant arc = a giant flood, so they mocked and jeered Noah, instead of helping his arc or building their own.

It's no different then as it is now, God gave us the Marine who died as an example a person who does his duty; and what happpens? Instead of going in and paying him respect like they should, because that marine deserves respect for giving his life, they stand outside and protest.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:43 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Although I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming its just a translation of scripture and not your actual opinion.
Everything I said was just my interpretation, yes and thank you.

I tend to keep my personal beliefs to myself in these matters.
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Old 04-02-2010, 12:02 PM   #36 (permalink)
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To get this thread back on topic, what the fuck? I want to kill these people just for saying this. It's beyond twisted **** to protest anyone's funeral for anything. But this is just... I can't even put into words how much it pisses me off. The worst part about it is, do those stupid fuckers even realize what they're doing? The only reason they have the right to do **** like this is that the Marines are over there, risking their lives every day to protect our freedoms. Matthew Snyder died to defend people like them. And they're going to go to his funeral like that? I'm not going to lie, if any of my friends are killed in action and some little fucks decide to protest their funeral, I don't think I'll be able to hold myself back.
you're reacting exactly how they want you to react don't give them any satisfaction
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:31 PM   #37 (permalink)
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you're reacting exactly how they want you to react don't give them any satisfaction
Actually, it was the person who made this thread and gave these people one more damned google entry who are giving them the desired effect. But lets not go pointing fingers, this is a discussion forum of current events after all.
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:08 PM   #38 (permalink)
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One way to think of it.

To be forgiven you must repent. Just because God is forgiving of evil-doers when they sincerely repent of their sins doesn't mean he can tolerate them forever. If that were the case then those who serve him faithfully, by his standards, would see that they didn't really need to. If God, who created the sinners in the first place, wants them to live by his moral standards of what is right and wrong but they repeatedly don't, even after being warned (and in the flood story, they were warned by Noah and his family of the impending flood) - he has to take action.

So, although God is, and his subjects are commanded to be, forgiving of people when they er and ask sincere forgiveness from their wrong course... this doesn't mean that when somebody does something wrong and shows no remorse it should be ignored or accepted.

This isn't to say human being should take matters into their own hands when it comes to forgiveness. If somebody ers you and doesn't care, ask forgiveness, show remorse, etc - you should let go of that. You, as an imperfect human don't have the authority God has, and you want to be peaceable with your fellow man.

Just my understanding.
A few comments came to mind as I read this. I don't really want to derail this thread further, so I'm not really expecting answers to these questions. I just wanted to throw them out there as food for thought:
  • What makes you think God "has to take action"? God doesn't have to do anything. He could just as easily be eternally forgiving of transgressions instead of being wrathful toward those transgressors.
  • Considering that God, being perfect and all-powerful, would have known exactly how humans would behave when he made them, is it really reasonable for him to punish them for following the nature he gave them? When, say, a car has a dangerous design flaw, is it the fault of the individual vehicles or is it the fault of the manufacturer?
  • What about all the little kids and babies God killed with the flood? Are we as readers of this story really supposed to believe they were evil and worthy of death?
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i'm not gonna spend my life on music banter trying to convince people the earth is flat.
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25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die


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Old 04-02-2010, 09:50 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Janszoon View Post
A few comments came to mind as I read this. I don't really want to derail this thread further, so I'm not really expecting answers to these questions. I just wanted to throw them out there as food for thought:
  • What makes you think God "has to take action"? God doesn't have to do anything. He could just as easily be eternally forgiving of transgressions instead of being wrathful toward those transgressors.
  • Considering that God, being perfect and all-powerful, would have known exactly how humans would behave when he made them, is it really reasonable for him to punish them for following the nature he gave them? When, say, a car has a dangerous design flaw, is it the fault of the individual vehicles or is it the fault of the manufacturer?
  • What about all the little kids and babies God killed with the flood? Are we as readers of this story really supposed to believe they were evil and worthy of death?
True.
If he's all knowing, then he created existence knowing exactly how many people will die, suffer, and make bad decisions based on "free will", so the choices would be pre-determined by virtue of his knowledge of the outcome prior to creating the circumstances. In effect, he murdered everyone who has ever died or will die and caused the suffering and all future suffering. And if someone brings up the "original sin", it's null via the fact that god knew that would happen too.
Instead of letting all the suffering happen, he could simply take it away, create peace, everybody smiling and getting blowjobs and drinking chocolate Yoohoos forever and ever amen.
But instead he says "You dudes have free will... You're free to follow my plan or not and go to hell." Meanwhile we're all down here thinking we're making our own choices and he's up there watching us like a fucking House re-run just because we're entertaining, even though he knows the horrible script and more horrible ending.

It's simple. If the biblical god exists, he's a real asshole.
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:05 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I can't really respond to those without going into an entire thing i'm sure you don't even want to hear so...
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