(Lack of) Human Evolution.

boo boo · 06-03-2010, 09:35 AM

Creatures evolve out of necessity depending on their situation, they don't just mutate for the hell of it.

I think we're at a point where we wont evolve much further, maybe slightly in some ways, but we don't really have any more needs that require us to adapt something new, but neither do we really have anything that we no longer need or use.

We may eventually merge into one race, but that would take a loooooooooooong time and it really depends on weither or not racism will eventually go away and people will no longer have a desire to preserve their race.

duga · 06-03-2010, 09:59 AM

Technically they do mutate for the hell of it...mutations are totally random. There have probably been millions of mutations throughout history providing a cool little trick to some creature but since it didn't particularly create a survival advantage, it was most likely lost after a couple of generations.

I feel any further physical human evolution will be purely aesthetic (blending into one race as boo boo put it), but the big part will come with mental evolution (but only if we stop cutting education when funds get tight).

Also...boo boo, you are back!!

RVCA · 06-04-2010, 12:44 PM

I was just gonna say the same thing, duga. It would make sense that if humans survived long enough to experience any kind of noticeable physical mutation (which is looking unlikely with the current state of world affairs), we'd see an increase in brain size, which would probably lead to an increase in head size and overall body size.

Guybrush · 06-04-2010, 04:54 PM

Hmm, mutations happen all the time, though it's a relatively more rare occurrence that these mutations are expressed in an individual in a way that changes morphology and which is discovered by science/medicine.

Mutations doesn't have to be the key word to understand this, even though it's an essential ingredient. Just imagine for head/brain size that people vary around a norm. Some have smaller heads than the average, some have larger. If the large people have more reproductive success and produce more surviving babies who inherit their big-head genes and this is a continuing trend, then there's directional selection - natural or sexual - which over time will result in larger heads.

Right now, I don't think there's a trend like that. At least not on a large scale.

edit :

And I'd still say that creatures don't evolve out of necessity because that implies there's a choice. Evolution is still just a consequence of the variation of life coupled with natural selection. Need doesn't really enter into it. If you have 5 white rabbits and 5 black rabbits and you choose to kill all the black rabbits, your little rabbit population would soon consist only of white rabbits. You could say evolution has taken place and black has been cleaned out from the population genome. Still, you wouldn't say that this evolution happened because the white rabbits needed it to. It's just a consequence of your selection and you selected white bunnies, almost like nature will "select" for animals who are capable and able to reproduce.

duga · 06-04-2010, 06:22 PM

Yeah, I don't think head size would change too much since that implies we would be selecting for larger heads, as tore mentioned. We have the potential to select for brain capacity, however. For a while, the trend was to place more and more educational requirements on children as in topics that were once covered in college are now taught in high school. In the US it seems we are regressing, but in other parts of the world at least educational excellence is a big deal. This is a form of natural selection in itself. It's very subtle and will take a long time before there is any real noticeable difference, but let's say we time travel 1000 years in the future. I'm sure by then there would be something to compare to today's standards.

RVCA · 06-04-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

Yeah, I don't think head size would change too much since that implies we would be selecting for larger heads, as tore mentioned. We have the potential to select for brain capacity, however. For a while, the trend was to place more and more educational requirements on children as in topics that were once covered in college are now taught in high school. In the US it seems we are regressing, but in other parts of the world at least educational excellence is a big deal. This is a form of natural selection in itself. It's very subtle and will take a long time before there is any real noticeable difference, but let's say we time travel 1000 years in the future. I'm sure by then there would be something to compare to today's standards.

That's what I mean though. If selection favors the more intelligent, you'd think brain size would increase over time, resulting in larger heads. It's like how Ornithiscian Dinosaurs evolved into ridiculously big sizes as a means of better digesting the poor selection of non-flowering plants during the Jurassic era.

Sljslj · 06-04-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

That's what I mean though. If selection favors the more intelligent, you'd think brain size would increase over time, resulting in larger heads. It's like how Ornithiscian Dinosaurs evolved into ridiculously big sizes as a means of better digesting the poor selection of non-flowering plants during the Jurassic era.

Brain size isn't directly related to intelligence, atleast that's my understanding.

RVCA · 06-04-2010, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sljslj

Brain size isn't directly related to intelligence, atleast that's my understanding.

I don't know anything about the brain, but I've got to assume that if your brain is more massive, you've got more brainpower to work with. Seems logical, on a very simple level.

Guybrush · 06-05-2010, 01:01 AM

I'm not sure how better jobs or higher education relates to biological fitness. I'm thinking a plumber can have as many children as an executive. In my experience, people who get a higher education spend more time studying in their 20s while people who don't are more likely to spend (some of) those years establishing a career and a family.

Is there really selection for intelligence? I mean, you don't want to be with an absolute tit perhaps, but I feel like once you get to an acceptable value, higher intelligence is not necessarily very attractive. It's not like nerds tend to get laid more than others!

Sljslj · 06-05-2010, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

I don't know anything about the brain, but I've got to assume that if your brain is more massive, you've got more brainpower to work with. Seems logical, on a very simple level.

I looked into it a little bit and there doesn't seems to be a general consensus, some experts say yeah, others no, so... *shrug*.

06-03-2010, 09:59 AM	#42 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	Technically they do mutate for the hell of it...mutations are totally random. There have probably been millions of mutations throughout history providing a cool little trick to some creature but since it didn't particularly create a survival advantage, it was most likely lost after a couple of generations. I feel any further physical human evolution will be purely aesthetic (blending into one race as boo boo put it), but the big part will come with mental evolution (but only if we stop cutting education when funds get tight). Also...boo boo, you are back!! __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

06-04-2010, 04:54 PM	#44 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	Hmm, mutations happen all the time, though it's a relatively more rare occurrence that these mutations are expressed in an individual in a way that changes morphology and which is discovered by science/medicine. Mutations doesn't have to be the key word to understand this, even though it's an essential ingredient. Just imagine for head/brain size that people vary around a norm. Some have smaller heads than the average, some have larger. If the large people have more reproductive success and produce more surviving babies who inherit their big-head genes and this is a continuing trend, then there's directional selection - natural or sexual - which over time will result in larger heads. Right now, I don't think there's a trend like that. At least not on a large scale. edit : And I'd still say that creatures don't evolve out of necessity because that implies there's a choice. Evolution is still just a consequence of the variation of life coupled with natural selection. Need doesn't really enter into it. If you have 5 white rabbits and 5 black rabbits and you choose to kill all the black rabbits, your little rabbit population would soon consist only of white rabbits. You could say evolution has taken place and black has been cleaned out from the population genome. Still, you wouldn't say that this evolution happened because the white rabbits needed it to. It's just a consequence of your selection and you selected white bunnies, almost like nature will "select" for animals who are capable and able to reproduce. __________________ Something Completely Different

06-04-2010, 06:22 PM	#45 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	Yeah, I don't think head size would change too much since that implies we would be selecting for larger heads, as tore mentioned. We have the potential to select for brain capacity, however. For a while, the trend was to place more and more educational requirements on children as in topics that were once covered in college are now taught in high school. In the US it seems we are regressing, but in other parts of the world at least educational excellence is a big deal. This is a form of natural selection in itself. It's very subtle and will take a long time before there is any real noticeable difference, but let's say we time travel 1000 years in the future. I'm sure by then there would be something to compare to today's standards. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

06-05-2010, 01:01 AM	#49 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I'm not sure how better jobs or higher education relates to biological fitness. I'm thinking a plumber can have as many children as an executive. In my experience, people who get a higher education spend more time studying in their 20s while people who don't are more likely to spend (some of) those years establishing a career and a family. Is there really selection for intelligence? I mean, you don't want to be with an absolute tit perhaps, but I feel like once you get to an acceptable value, higher intelligence is not necessarily very attractive. It's not like nerds tend to get laid more than others! __________________ Something Completely Different

06-04-2010, 12:44 PM	#43 (permalink)
RVCA （￣ー￣） Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,270	I was just gonna say the same thing, duga. It would make sense that if humans survived long enough to experience any kind of noticeable physical mutation (which is looking unlikely with the current state of world affairs), we'd see an increase in brain size, which would probably lead to an increase in head size and overall body size.