[MERIT]

I'm just going to have to politely agree to disagree. I'm in no way an advocate of suicide, but what a person chooses to do with their life is their business. Physically, committing suicide affects no one but the person who does it. Psychological and mental distress is completely relative. I could get pissed off when my sports team loses. I could be sad if my dog ran away. I could be angry if I wanted to make a sandwhich and I was out of sliced ham. These are all things that have no physical impact, but can only have a mental effect on me if I choose to let them. Again, hypotheticals are all we can really go on, seeing as how we can't ask someone who committed suicide what the circumstances were (them being dead and all). Facing your demons has absolutely nothing to do with cowardess (or lack thereof).

While I can see where you're coming from, I feel that unless you've been there yourself, you really don't have the tools that you need to properly judge.

Howard the Duck

she's "downlow" from muzicforums - i would visit her for psychiatric help for the slightest chance of a pity shag

Mr November

I always thought that they told people to take people who say they're going to commit suicide seriously (if they aren't just using it as an expression sort of a thing), because, and I could be wrong, don't a lot of suicide victims show warnings?

On the other hand last week some poor kid killed himself, his mother was trained in suicide prevention, and she said later that she had no idea. So either I'm wrong, or suicide happens lots of different ways.

Anyway, I still stand by what I said before about "cowardly" being the wrong word for it. I understand where the people who say it's cowardly are coming from, but I just don't feel like it fits. It's very easy to look at it from the outside and make statements, but even if someone you loved committed suicide and you have strong feelings about it, that doesn't mean that you understand suicide from the perspective of someone who would commit it.

And there are lots of variables too. Like what about the whole concept of falling on your sword? That's cultural suicide - and that sort of ties into this whole question of whether a suicide bomber would be a coward, or someone who makes a sacrifice, or just puts their life in serious danger. What about some one who is on life support and is suffering because their family doesn't want to let go. In that case you could almost argue that the family are the once who are being cowardly.

music_phantom13

OK people seem to have a lot of misconception about mental illnesses here. I made a point earlier about suicide being selfish, which I think I should clarify first , I feel that the actual act of suicide overall is selfish. The person may be thinking that nobody cares about them and it won't matter to anyone else, which defies selfishness right there in that they are indeed considering it. But I stand by my saying that, regardless of your outlook on it, it is a selfish act that ultimately can only lead to what the person committing suicide wants.

Now, on to what depression actually is because dirty is so ridiculously far off it's crazy. Depression can make you feel like an absolutely worthless person that has absolutely no positive traits to them. When some people with depression gets in one of these moods, they will certainly have no problem admitting that they are cowardly, as it may be just one of many negative traits they probably dislike themselves for. The thing about mental illnesses in general that I don't think is being understood by most of you is, people are very, very complicated. Everyone is immensely different, so while two people may be diagnosed with clinical depression, for one example, they may have two very different emotions they are feeling, outlook on life, etc. One person might be depressed and feel anger at themselves for not being able to fix what's wrong, stop sleeping and eating, lash out at anyone that tries to help them, and feel like lots of things are wrong with them (cowardly, ugly, etc) . Another might quit their job, eat tons of food, and sleep the days away while refusing to talk to anyone, simply giving up on life in general. Yet a third might sleep more than usual, eat less than normal, appear lazy, and cling on to one person out of fear of losing them and insecurity while giving up on lots of other relationships out of pessimism. And the feelings that come with it are a whole other world to anyone that hasn't been there before.

All of this doesn't even factor in other mental disorders that often end in suicide. All in all, just wanted to point out it's not nearly as black and white as a lot of people seem to think.

[MERIT]

Of course it leads to what the person committing suicide wants (death), that's the whole point of doing it. But since when is free will considered "selfish"?

Spot on. Each case of suicide must be assessed uniquely, and never generalized.

Many people that suffer from mental illness may not even be aware that they have anything wrong with them (I'm in no way trying to demonize anyone with mental illness mind you).

Paedantic Basterd

This is true, however, it's a cultural difference I am unable to thoroughly understand. Anyways, you seem to have misunderstood me. By saying suicide isn't brave, I am by no means saying it is cowardly. I would not ascribe either word to the act.

Hehehehe.

[MERIT]

As I understand it, they feel it is more honorable to take their own life than to let an enemy kill them. It is also a way for someone to bring honor back to their family after disgracing them.

music_phantom13

No, and of course there will still be people that don't want to accept it, the kind of people dirty was talking about. My whole point was just that depression and mental illness isn't quite as cut and dry as people were making it seem at times in the discussion.

Paedantic Basterd

No, I mean, I understand in the sense that I know how and why it happens, I'm just not accepting of it due to the cultural barrier.

[MERIT]

I couldn't agree more. There is a difference between a mental illness, being overly emotional, being unpredictable, etc. Mental illness is something that a person cannot help. If someone who is mentally ill commits suicide, it is not selfish, it is a product of their illness.

I don't condone it either, but I can understand killing yourself to avoid capture and torture by an enemy (if those were your only 2 choices).