Church Plans on Burning Qur'an on September 11th

09-09-2010, 06:34 PM

Within the christian religion there is nothing that says people of the christian faith must be tolerant of other religions. The way it looks to me is its a superstitious person getting angry at other people for holding superstitions and endangering others in the process.

mr dave · 09-09-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odyshape

Within the christian religion there is nothing that says people of the christian faith must be tolerant of other religions. The way it looks to me is its a superstitious person getting angry at other people for holding superstitions and endangering others in the process.

the faith may not say it has to be tolerant of other religions but the LAW of the land most certainly does.

it's not a matter of superstitions, it's a matter of gross ignorance and disrespect.

@ xEMGx - it is NOT within his rights to spread hate, to condemn others based on belief, or to incite hate towards a particular group. what would have this proposed action have served besides that?

Zaqarbal · 09-10-2010, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odyshape

Within the christian religion there is nothing that says people of the christian faith must be tolerant of other religions. The way it looks to me is its a superstitious person getting angry at other people for holding superstitions and endangering others in the process.

Exactly. That's the point. It's about a blatant lack of rationalism. Someone has to say the obvious once and for all:

It's only PAPER!!!!!

Hypothesis: an integrist enters a bookshop, buys some atheist or agnostic books, and burns them near my home. I wouldn't waste one single second thinking about it. I have a lot of better things to do. Because I don't deify paper. Paper is only paper.

If the integrist message is "I hate you so much", that's nothing new. We already know about integrists' hatred. What's the difference between saying "I hate Islam so much" and burning a Quran?. Answer: a few grams of burned paper. That pastor, Terry Jones, has already said all what he thinks about Islam. What's left, then?. Only the final RITUAL. That's all. The burning RITUAL. All this scandal because of a simple integrist ritual?

According to certain politically correct views, "all beliefs must be respectable". Bullshit!! If you believe that the Earth is flat, your belief is worth a shit. If you believe that religious books are made of "supernatural paper", your belief is worth a shit.

VEGANGELICA · 09-10-2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

Erm, "law of the land"? It's most certainly within his rights as an American citizen to burn whatever book he wants to. It would be disgusting, yes, but for us to prevent him from doing so would violate the first amendment.

Exactly. Free speech...one of the most important rights within any free society...means that people can express themselves non-violently however they choose (as long as environmental law and property rights etc. aren't violated).

Supporting free speech means supporting the right of people to express themselves even if you find their message or how they portray it (non-violently) to be offensive.

Sometimes the philosophy of Utilitarianism (seeking the greatest good for the greatest number of people) is used as a rationale for violating people's free speech. For example, it is against the law to shout "fire!" in a theater, because people tend to die trying to escape.

So, I can see how people can argue that no one should burn the Quran, as many have in this thread, because doing so incites certain people to be violent...the very violent behavior the book burning is condemning.

However, not expressing your views for fear that someone in response will hurt you or others is EXACTLY why we need protection of free speech. The U.S. *should* protect and support a person's freedom of speech and expression, including destroying religious books in protest...any religion, any book. Not supporting freedom of expression is giving into fear and cowering before people who are violent. Worse, it supports those who perpetrate violence to try to enforce their views.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaqarbal

Exactly. That's the point. It's about a blatant lack of rationalism. Someone has to say the obvious once and for all:

It's only PAPER!!!!!

Yes. Freedom of speech and freedom of religion do not mean we have to like or follow religious views of others, or act as if their holy paper is truly holy.

The U.S. occasionally has groups wanting to make it illegal and against the constitution to burn the U.S. flag, and though it is certainly within their rights to try this, I feel a law against burning a flag violates freedom of expression. Thankfully, the U.S. supreme court agrees with me:

Quote:

"The flag of the United States is sometimes symbolically burnt, often in protest of the policies of the American government, both within the country and abroad. The United States Supreme Court has ruled that, due to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, it is unconstitutional for a government (whether federal, state, or municipality) to prohibit the desecration of a flag, due to its status as "symbolic speech." Flag desecration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rules about books should be the same: as long as you own the book, you can shred it, burn it, use it as toilet-paper, spit on it...etc. Similarly, if I have a flag, I can turn it into underwear, make a bear-suit out of it, whatever I want. Isn't that great? I think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

As this is potentially a threat to world peace and people who are alive now could well be soon dead because of it, then it's about time the U.S. government did something to stop this idiot from abusing his rights.He should be arrested for incitement and transported to Guantanamo Bay with the other religious extremists.
I understand the freedom of speech, but common sense should take precedence here.

The minister would not be the one responsible for reacting violently to his actions: the perpetrators would be, right-track.

The U.S. government should NOT do anything to stop a person from following his rights. If you have a right, and your action is within that right, then this is not abusing your rights.

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09-09-2010, 06:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
Odyshape Guest Posts: n/a	Within the christian religion there is nothing that says people of the christian faith must be tolerant of other religions. The way it looks to me is its a superstitious person getting angry at other people for holding superstitions and endangering others in the process.