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Old 10-15-2010, 06:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Y'all are approaching these issues from the wrong direction. Ask yourself, "why is there something rather than nothing?" The amazing thing isn't that life evolved, that humans are intelligent and "in control," the amazing thing is being--the fact that all of this is being experienced at all. Try to imagine a Universe which is just the same as this one, with everything constantly evolving, struggling and dying, but in which none of it is experienced. In which everything is an automaton. Does it exist? Not until you show up. Does an amoeba experience existence? Does a virus? How does this line suddenly emerge: on this side are things that don't experience existence, and on this side are things that do.

The question isn't: how did life emerge? But: what is life? How is it possible for "dead" matter to generate being? Why is it that I can say that a rock doesn't have an experience but I do? If the rock doesn't experience itself does it even exist? What does it mean to say that it exists beside the fact that I experience it? And if everything I am are things that I experience, does that mean that I am the rock? Why should I be my thoughts any more than I am that rock, than I am you? Because I decide what to think? Because I experience the experience of deciding?

And if I am not the rock, not my thoughts, not my brain or my cells or my DNA, if I am not any of the things that I experience, but just the nameless thing which experiences, how is it meaningful at all to try to trace where that thing came from, how it developed? It is completely separate from anything it experiences, and also completely dependent on them. It is impossible to explain being scientifically. In fact, it is impossible to explain being at all. Being just is. Is it miraculous that the right environment would exist for being to emerge? No, that's absolutely absurd. Being does not emerge from the environment any more than the environment emerges from being. And yet, maybe you could say that that is exactly what happens. But you have to realize that's the only thing that happens. What does it mean to say that anything else happens if it isn't experienced?

So you're looking for this mysterious force that keeps pushing everything toward some point. And yes, here you have it, because it is the same force that is behind trans-humanism. It is Force, it is Drive, which is nothing but the desire to make the environment more hospitable. What does that even mean? Fundamentally, the environment doesn't change. That's what the law of conservation of energy really means. But since we only experience a limited piece of the environment, we can change it so we have more free energy available to us. This creates the illusion that life is getting easier. Life isn't changing. The environment stays the same. Being stays the same. What is this point we seem to be reaching for? When there is no longer any latency--when the time between the occurrence of a desire and its satisfaction is finally reduced to zero. But what is there beside desire and satisfaction? Without a distance between them, neither can exist. Everything collapses. Time ends.

But don't worry, the point we're striving to get to is impossible to reach. There's nothing wrong with striving for it, because really there is nobody striving for it. In the whole, energy is balanced and static. But for a part, with a limited perspective, energy seems to appear and disappear. The "striving" we experience is nothing but this redistribution of energy, we're not in control of it, our experience of ourselves is a result of it taking place. This experience is an illusion. Why? Because we think we're behind it, we think we decide to chase energy here or store energy there. Really it's just the energy moving around. That's all there is, energy. I am not that energy, I am the thing that experiences that energy. But really, the thing that experiences energy is nothing but that experience. So I am not that either. I am all of it. I am none of it. To say "I" means to draw lines, but wherever you put the lines is arbitrary. So "I" is arbitrary. It is real and unreal. There is no mystery, there is no explanation, there is no beginning or end. These are all the results of drawing arbitrary lines. And yet, they all exist. Draw a line and they exist.

Life is not a meaningful creation or a meaningless accident. Draw a line and you have meaning and meaninglessness. Life exists with and without lines. That's all you can say about life. It is. Don't talk about where it came from or where it's going. Or talk about it until you realize you're going in endless circles. Talk about it until you explode. Nobody is deciding what to do. Energy is moving, energy isn't moving. The Hindus say: "you are that!" You are the subject and the object. Buddhists say: "you are nothing!" You are not the subject or the object. They're saying the same thing. This doesn't make sense. Stop making sense. You'll find peace when you do. This does make sense. There is no peace here.

Last edited by cardboard adolescent; 10-15-2010 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 10-30-2010, 07:27 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent View Post
Y'all are approaching these issues from the wrong direction. Ask yourself, "why is there something rather than nothing?" The amazing thing isn't that life evolved, that humans are intelligent and "in control," the amazing thing is being--the fact that all of this is being experienced at all. Try to imagine a Universe which is just the same as this one, with everything constantly evolving, struggling and dying, but in which none of it is experienced. In which everything is an automaton. Does it exist? Not until you show up. Does an amoeba experience existence? Does a virus? How does this line suddenly emerge: on this side are things that don't experience existence, and on this side are things that do.

The question isn't: how did life emerge? But: what is life? How is it possible for "dead" matter to generate being? Why is it that I can say that a rock doesn't have an experience but I do? If the rock doesn't experience itself does it even exist? What does it mean to say that it exists beside the fact that I experience it? And if everything I am are things that I experience, does that mean that I am the rock? Why should I be my thoughts any more than I am that rock, than I am you? Because I decide what to think? Because I experience the experience of deciding?

And if I am not the rock, not my thoughts, not my brain or my cells or my DNA, if I am not any of the things that I experience, but just the nameless thing which experiences, how is it meaningful at all to try to trace where that thing came from, how it developed? It is completely separate from anything it experiences, and also completely dependent on them. It is impossible to explain being scientifically. In fact, it is impossible to explain being at all. Being just is. Is it miraculous that the right environment would exist for being to emerge? No, that's absolutely absurd. Being does not emerge from the environment any more than the environment emerges from being. And yet, maybe you could say that that is exactly what happens. But you have to realize that's the only thing that happens. What does it mean to say that anything else happens if it isn't experienced?

So you're looking for this mysterious force that keeps pushing everything toward some point. And yes, here you have it, because it is the same force that is behind trans-humanism. It is Force, it is Drive, which is nothing but the desire to make the environment more hospitable. What does that even mean? Fundamentally, the environment doesn't change. That's what the law of conservation of energy really means. But since we only experience a limited piece of the environment, we can change it so we have more free energy available to us. This creates the illusion that life is getting easier. Life isn't changing. The environment stays the same. Being stays the same. What is this point we seem to be reaching for? When there is no longer any latency--when the time between the occurrence of a desire and its satisfaction is finally reduced to zero. But what is there beside desire and satisfaction? Without a distance between them, neither can exist. Everything collapses. Time ends.

But don't worry, the point we're striving to get to is impossible to reach. There's nothing wrong with striving for it, because really there is nobody striving for it. In the whole, energy is balanced and static. But for a part, with a limited perspective, energy seems to appear and disappear. The "striving" we experience is nothing but this redistribution of energy, we're not in control of it, our experience of ourselves is a result of it taking place. This experience is an illusion. Why? Because we think we're behind it, we think we decide to chase energy here or store energy there. Really it's just the energy moving around. That's all there is, energy. I am not that energy, I am the thing that experiences that energy. But really, the thing that experiences energy is nothing but that experience. So I am not that either. I am all of it. I am none of it. To say "I" means to draw lines, but wherever you put the lines is arbitrary. So "I" is arbitrary. It is real and unreal. There is no mystery, there is no explanation, there is no beginning or end. These are all the results of drawing arbitrary lines. And yet, they all exist. Draw a line and they exist.

Life is not a meaningful creation or a meaningless accident. Draw a line and you have meaning and meaninglessness. Life exists with and without lines. That's all you can say about life. It is. Don't talk about where it came from or where it's going. Or talk about it until you realize you're going in endless circles. Talk about it until you explode. Nobody is deciding what to do. Energy is moving, energy isn't moving. The Hindus say: "you are that!" You are the subject and the object. Buddhists say: "you are nothing!" You are not the subject or the object. They're saying the same thing. This doesn't make sense. Stop making sense. You'll find peace when you do. This does make sense. There is no peace here.
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