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View Poll Results: Your level of observance?
Non-practicing/secular form of religion 19 44.19%
A little observant 3 6.98%
Middle-of-the-road observance 10 23.26%
Strict adherence to religious rules 4 9.30%
Don't know 7 16.28%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-20-2011, 07:33 PM   #421 (permalink)
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Mr. Zoon, I think you're in the same boat as Mr. Clancy insofar as when you say God, you mean a Judeo-Christian God.

I had an IR professor in college, Iranian expatriate thrown out during the revolution. He was saying once how most people in America (and the west) have Christianity so ingrained in them that when they say they are agnostic/atheist they say its in reference to Christianity even if they don't specificy. The whole concept of religion, which they reject, is fundamentally rooted in Christianity.

I don't have a problem with people not believing in God, but just make sure (and I'm not saying this speciafically to you, or that you are doing this, Jans) you're not thinking the story of Jesus is illogical and all creators in any form.
I'm curious what would make you think that. I can assure you I'm not specifically talking about the Abrahamic God, I'm talking about a general god concept. This does bring up a point worth discussing though, namely defining what we're discussing. When I say "god" I am referring to any notion of an intelligent supernatural entity or entities which govern and/or created the universe.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:38 PM   #422 (permalink)
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See this is what I'm talking about. No one said anything about religious teachings. You're thinking of a Christian God.

God =/= religion.
God =/= teachings.

And theres no telling what god is or what its intentions are, so the whole "presents" analogy is again Christian.
^ That.
Assuming there is anything like a heaven or hell is completely separate from whether or not God exists. Heaven isn't necessary for God to be.



Janzoon, your definition works for me. I think "God" implies both creation and sentience.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:40 PM   #423 (permalink)
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As am I Jaz.

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See this is what I'm talking about. No one said anything about religious teachings. You're thinking of a Christian God.

God =/= religion.
God =/= teachings.

And theres no telling what god is or what its intentions are, so the whole "presents" analogy is again Christian.
Okay, you really are failing to grasp the simplest of ideas here.

Your post is basically telling me that there is only religious teachings in Christianity because you assume that when I say "religious teachings" am I not speaking on broader terms.

Secondly, if we are talking about God and not religion, you still have a belief of something that is not proven to even the most basic extent. Therefore you have these beliefs for no apparent reason.

I get the feeling being religious is the new alternative viewpoint that some use to appear to be more worldly and intelligent.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:42 PM   #424 (permalink)
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Until some undeniable proofs turns up, I'll remain undecided on the subject.

I think Christianity deserves a little credit. It looks good compared to the ancient mythologies. For quite possibly the first time in human history, messages of good morals were being preached. And there were some scientific claims in the bible that were ahead of it's time, for example, it says that life on earth began in the ocean.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:46 PM   #425 (permalink)
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It's possibly the greatest story ever told. Got a bit out of hand.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:46 PM   #426 (permalink)
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Okay, you really are failing to grasp the simplest of ideas here.
I just want to pinch your delightful little cheeks.

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Your post is basically telling me that there is only religious teachings in Christianity because you assume that when I say "religious teachings" am I not speaking on broader terms.

Secondly, if we are talking about God and not religion, you still have a belief of something that is not proven to even the most basic extent. Therefore you have these beliefs for no apparent reason.

I get the feeling being religious is the new alternative viewpoint that some use to appear to be more worldly and intelligent.
So why don't you tell me some Islamic laws you don't subscribe to. And Tao and Rastafarian and Gnostic laws you think are foolish.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:49 PM   #427 (permalink)
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Why should I? I really don't care.

I don't want to know their teachings, I have no interest in learning what they consider to be the right kind of religion and I am not going to waste my time discovering it.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:51 PM   #428 (permalink)
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I don't care for religion, I have no faith at all, I think it is entirely possible that God exists, but choose not to devote any aspect of my life towards that and eagerly await being proven wrong.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:52 PM   #429 (permalink)
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I'm curious what would make you think that. I can assure you I'm not specifically talking about the Abrahamic God, I'm talking about a general god concept. This does bring up a point worth discussing though, namely defining what we're discussing. When I say "god" I am referring to any notion of an intelligent supernatural entity or entities which govern and/or created the universe.
Uh, well I guess I'm with you assuming by supernatural you mean beyond what we would experience on earth.

I don't necessarily concede that god governs the universe. I sometimes wonder if its governs, set processes in motion, or is observing as mutations are allowed to fully playout.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:16 PM   #430 (permalink)
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Not all religions are the same. Buddhists doesn't believe in a creator, yet they believe in rebirth and an after-life.

I guess you haven't realized that by being an atheist, you too believe in something that has yet to be definitively proven.
much as I like to believe in reincarnation, i have to confess i have no memories of a past life

Buddhism in its purest form, is merely a philosophy, Buddha never proclaimed himself God, unlike Jesus

only later when the Taoists came in, only was Buddha worshipped as a God

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You need to come down to Earth a little, Tom. All religions are illogical? What an arrogant and illogical statement. There are some religions, like Buddhism, that consist of some very deep wisdom. If more people thought like a Buddhist Monk, the world would be a better place.

And there are some pretty intriguing cases that support rebirth.
such as?

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There are highly touted theories that we can physically be in multiple places at the same time. We have no idea when our universe began or how big it is, or what's outside of it. We literally don't know anything about our physical world. But you're going to just go out on a limb here and claim that it's foolish to think that a God is possible. The only foolish thing is to claim that you know that anything does or does not exist.
a multi-verse only really implies there are multiple versions of yourself, and yourself in another universe would be in a divergent situation, because of the paths your alternate versions chose

they are not necessarily "you"

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It's foolish to expect somebody to assume based on nothing.

I am here, right now. Not in two places.
see above

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I just want to pinch your delightful little cheeks.

So why don't you tell me some Islamic laws you don't subscribe to. And Tao and Rastafarian and Gnostic laws you think are foolish.
Taoist, in its purest form, also, is merely a philosophy - read the "Tao Te Ching" if you don't believe me

only when some religious fuddy-duddies mixed in Indian mysticism was it a religion
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