The Concept of Pride

midnight rain · 04-23-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Pat

What do you mean?

Basically if free will doesn't exist then we have nothing to take pride in because we have as much control over our accomplishments as the color of our skin. Unless your ok with taking pride in your skin color

Inuzuka Skysword · 04-23-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

To be fair, one could argue that accomplishments (that result in pride) aren't any more under our control then, say, our race or appearance since our genetics and environment are responsible for decision-making. That gets into the debate about free will though.

I think that you could make the argument that our accomplishments aren't completely rooted in us, but there is noticeable difference between being born into a certain race, and training and doing well in a marathon. It is a bit of a stretch to say that there is no difference in regards to responsibility.

midnight rain · 04-23-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

I think that you could make the argument that our accomplishments aren't completely rooted in us, but there is noticeable difference between being born into a certain race, and training and doing well in a marathon. It is a bit of a stretch to say that there is no difference in regards to responsibility.

Yeah I think it depends on your belief as to how much our actions are actually our decisions and not our conditioned responses to the things around us.

I'm not saying I believe what I posted earlier necessarily, but I do think it makes for an interesting debate.

CanwllCorfe · 04-23-2011, 12:28 PM

I don't think accomplishments should be the only source of pride. Shouldn't you be able to take pride in your culture? You surely didn't do anything to it. In fact, it is the way it is BECAUSE of the people before you.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 04-23-2011, 12:32 PM

Absolutely, pride is an invention of nature.

Inuzuka Skysword · 04-23-2011, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

I don't think accomplishments should be the only source of pride. Shouldn't you be able to take pride in your culture? You surely didn't do anything to it. In fact, it is the way it is BECAUSE of the people before you.

It isn't a matter of whether one should or shouldn't take pride in one's culture, it is a matter of whether or not that is possible. Pride, as in self-esteem, cannot be found in something that is not of ourself. We can value our culture, and we can be content that we exist in such a culture, but we cannot take pride in our culture.

CanwllCorfe · 04-23-2011, 12:43 PM

That's what I thought. I was confused on whether the point was being made that pride could only come from accomplishment. That definitely isn't the case, but I think it's mainly just because that's what's being discussed right now.

midnight rain · 04-23-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

That's what I thought. I was confused on whether the point was being made that pride could only come from accomplishment. That definitely isn't the case, but I think it's mainly just because that's what's being discussed right now.

It most definitely is the case if the term pride can't be applied to something like cultural achievements.

Inuzuka Skysword · 04-23-2011, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Yeah I think it depends on your belief as to how much our actions are actually our decisions and not our conditioned responses to the things around us.

We could be simply responding to the things around us, but didn't we still train and do well int he marathon.

I think that the issue lies in our definition of responsibility rather than the question of whether the will to action originates in us.

CanwllCorfe · 04-23-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

Pride, as in self-esteem, cannot be found in something that is not of ourself. We can value our culture, and we can be content that we exist in such a culture, but we cannot take pride in our culture.

Why does pride have to be so in line with "self". Why can't you be proud of something bigger than yourself? And I'm curious as to what you feel drives those who take part in strictly cultural things. Like these singers:

I would say that they are proud of their heritage, and are trying to further it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

It most definitely is the case if the term pride can't be applied to something like cultural achievements.

I wasn't saying pride couldn't apply to cultural achievements, just that I don't believe pride can ONLY come from accomplishment.

04-23-2011, 12:28 PM	#14 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	I don't think accomplishments should be the only source of pride. Shouldn't you be able to take pride in your culture? You surely didn't do anything to it. In fact, it is the way it is BECAUSE of the people before you. __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.

04-23-2011, 12:43 PM	#17 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	That's what I thought. I was confused on whether the point was being made that pride could only come from accomplishment. That definitely isn't the case, but I think it's mainly just because that's what's being discussed right now. __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.