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Old 05-04-2011, 11:53 PM   #371 (permalink)
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What rush is the ****ing news in that they make the Obama Bin Laden mistake, and they still haven't corrected the Usama Bin Laden in the bottom news feed.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:02 AM   #372 (permalink)
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I'm not going to lie. The over-the-top patriotism from American's I've seen on the news makes me throw up in my mouth.

If your going to spew - spew into this.

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Old 05-05-2011, 01:00 AM   #373 (permalink)
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So essentially what I've gathered over reading the last few pages is that most of you have more of a problem with American Patriotism than anything else involved in the subject... Can we keep it on topic and cut back on the anti-Americanism going on here?

Let the people who's sons and daughters have died over in an overgrown sandbox have their celebration, they deserve it. 10 years of funding and supplying a war we saw no headway on, I can definitely see why it's a cause to celebrate. I wouldn't want to party over the mans grave site (if he had one), but it's a victory, like it no not. This was the mission, mission accomplished, that's how it works. It doesn't have to be righteous to be a win.
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Old 05-05-2011, 01:02 AM   #374 (permalink)
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I'm not going to lie. The over-the-top patriotism from American's I've seen on the news makes me throw up in my mouth.
You'll appreciate this video then. Nevermind the dumbasses dancing in the streets, this is a way more accurate view of the typical American reaction:

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Old 05-05-2011, 02:35 AM   #375 (permalink)
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I wouldn't want to party over the mans grave site (if he had one), but it's a victory, like it no not. This was the mission, mission accomplished, that's how it works. It doesn't have to be righteous to be a win.
10 years, billions of dollars, thousands of lives for one man? yea that is totally worth it and so victorious..........
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:38 AM   #376 (permalink)
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"Aw man, you guys aren't celebrating? So what? You hate the military or what? Come on, scream USA ... lets see if everyone here can get swept into a fervor! Aw, **** you guys"

That video ^
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:55 AM   #377 (permalink)
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10 years, billions of dollars, thousands of lives for one man? yea that is totally worth it and so victorious..........
Not saying it's worth anything. Just saying that was the original goal. That's what the American majority wanted. Is that not why we elected W. a second time?

It shows people that all this isn't for nothing, it may not be the ultimate end we all want, but it gives people results, not excuses like we normally get.

p.s. What exactly do you have to be so snide about?
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:29 AM   #378 (permalink)
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I have no issue... well, I do slightly, but I think that's a guilt that we have to live with. I feel that it was necessary to Kill him, because he was too dagerous to live, and he was an icon of terrorism, and it was one of the things necessary for the victims of 9/11 to get their closure. That said, when a murderer is put to death in America, do the families of those he or she killed go out and have a party afterwards?

There is never reason to cheer, to gloat over the death of anyone, regardless of how heinous their crimes were. Laugh, cry, show your relief in whatever way you feel, but I would only cheer the End to the killing, not another one in what will most likely be many more.

With respect to the comments that "America did not provoke 9/11", I think many of you, as I was, are unaware of the sheer amount of damage the western world has done to the Islamic world. I really wish Crukster were still around to argue this one, as he really opened my eyes to how threatened they feel by Western society, and if anything, the string of terrorist attacks which resulted were reactionary lashing out rather than an unprovoked attack. In the eyes of many muslims, every time the West takes an interest in a muslim country, there is war, and death, and suffering. Many of them are peaceful, intelligent people. Hell, the Arabic world has a far, far more civilised history than the Christian world. I don't blame them for being scared of a people whose actions they cannot understand, and I certainly don't blame them for the violent actions of the minority.

Finally, the only way terrorism is going to end, the only hope of ever reducing it to the point that it is containable, is by uniting the people of the world. So long as West and East refuse to understand one another, those of a militant mindset will be able to recruit, through white lies and propaganda. They can play on the fears and ignorance of both sides in order to achieve their goals. Killing one man, as has been said so many times in this thread, is not going to stop terrorism, or even reduce it in any way, and I know most of you agree with that statement.

What I would challenge you all to do, is to go and learn something you didn't know about Islam. Just one thing, and maybe next week, learn something else. Because I think we're as much to blame for the wall of animosity between our peoples as they are, and unless one of us makes the first step in trying to understand the other, then it's never going to happen, and we'll always have terrorism, and we'll always have war, and we'll always have an endless cycle of unnecessary death.
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:56 AM   #379 (permalink)
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With respect to the comments that "America did not provoke 9/11", I think many of you, as I was, are unaware of the sheer amount of damage the western world has done to the Islamic world. I really wish Crukster were still around to argue this one, as he really opened my eyes to how threatened they feel by Western society, and if anything, the string of terrorist attacks which resulted were reactionary lashing out rather than an unprovoked attack. In the eyes of many muslims, every time the West takes an interest in a muslim country, there is war, and death, and suffering. Many of them are peaceful, intelligent people. Hell, the Arabic world has a far, far more civilised history than the Christian world. I don't blame them for being scared of a people whose actions they cannot understand, and I certainly don't blame them for the violent actions of the minority.

Finally, the only way terrorism is going to end, the only hope of ever reducing it to the point that it is containable, is by uniting the people of the world. So long as West and East refuse to understand one another, those of a militant mindset will be able to recruit, through white lies and propaganda. They can play on the fears and ignorance of both sides in order to achieve their goals. Killing one man, as has been said so many times in this thread, is not going to stop terrorism, or even reduce it in any way, and I know most of you agree with that statement.

What I would challenge you all to do, is to go and learn something you didn't know about Islam. Just one thing, and maybe next week, learn something else. Because I think we're as much to blame for the wall of animosity between our peoples as they are, and unless one of us makes the first step in trying to understand the other, then it's never going to happen, and we'll always have terrorism, and we'll always have war, and we'll always have an endless cycle of unnecessary death.
I'm responding to the part of your post about the U.S. understanding Islam here.

As a little background, I am in the U.S. Military, stationed in the middle-east currently. So I do have a first hand frame of reference on all the things I'm about to say.

While it may be true that most Americans do not make an effort to understand Islamic and middle-eastern culture, you cannot blame it on the U.S. Government or Military. I watch first hand everyday on the base on which I am stationed, thousands of US Citizens and Bahraini / Saudi Arabian citizens both civialian and military working hand in hand. They even took us to The Grand Mosque of The Kingdom of Bahrain when we first got out here as part of our indoctrination, as an effort to help us understand their culture and theirs understand ours.

I have met several very interesting people from this culture who are both religious, and some who are atheist (yes, middle-eastern atheists do exist) and we can easily co-exist. The government highly encourages us to get out and get involved in the community and to make an effort to interact with the local population. There is no hatred towards Americans from the locals and no hatred from the Americans (or joint coalition forces) towards the locals, which is exactly how it should and can someday be.

Believe me when I tell you, I don't believe the U.S. Military has any interest (from what I can see) of being violent towards any person in the middle-east who isn't out to harm us first.

While I agree with the core sentiment of your post that we must all make an effort to understand eachother in order to improve things between the two cultures, I take offense to you trying to put the blame on America for not making an attempt to do so.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:16 AM   #380 (permalink)
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Oh, I have no doubt that that's the case, Crash. My comments about understanding the other side were not meant in that fashion. I know people in the US Military and I have the greatest respect for them, and I apologise if I came across in that manner. My comments about not understanding were directed at those who claimed that the 9/11 attacks were in no way provoked, as I have personally, quite recently, come across muslims who have opened my eyes in that respect. It was still a deplorable act, but similar to how I can understand how the bombings in northern ireland started because a small group of violent militants played on the fears of the general public, I can understand how militant muslims could convince youngsters with ideals that the only way forward was to attack. It was still an unforgivable act, but... I understand why it happened.

As I said in the original post, there are definitely as many if not more muslims who are jovial, amiable people, but I think it would be naive to assume that that is the general feeling: Look at france, for instance, and the massive amount of animosity there, or Sweden, where there have been muslim-oriented riots, or in the UK, where many muslim communities have adapted a sort of "Isolationist" system, where they have almost entirely refused to integrate into their community, congregating in areas and making the indigenous population feel unwelcome. Unfortunately, I think that is what sticks in the minds of people more than anything when they think of muslims, and I also think that while that sort of behaviour certainly doesn't help on their part, I would not be surprised if it is something about our actions or manner which, in ignorance on their part, has been misconstrued as offensive behaviour. As I said, the blame is on both sides, and definitely not just on America.

That said, I am not trying to blame anyone for "not making the effort", because that is again like flogging a dead horse; blaming someone for not doing it won't make is happen any faster. I am as guilty as anyone else of having not made the effort, because it's all too easy to be so ignorant that you don't realise your own ignorance. The sooner we can realise our own ignorance, perhaps the sooner we can come to an understanding.
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