Urban Hat€monger ?

We live in a society where every gadget/item of clothing/whatever is seen as a 'must have' product.

We also live in a society where people are too shit scared to discipline kids any more because they're afraid a good telling off and a clip around the ear will traumatize the little darlings later in life and where people like teachers & those that look after kids are shit scared of doing anything in case they get fired or sued by the parents.

And then people wonder why this stuff happens.

Amazing.

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Mrd00d

Read in the newspaper that they're throwing the book at any/everyone caught up. Kid that stole a 24pk of bottled water retail 5 dollars American was sentenced to 6 months.

As said above, yes there are underlying issues and yes there are 'criminal' opportunists.

If I was there, and I coulda grabbed a few days worth of food and got away scot-free I would have as well. I might as well say. I'm not quite sure how so many people got caught taking small this n thats like a case of water... but anyway, I would kick myself in the shin if I missed the chance to F over corporate WalMart, or Safeway grocery, or some food place for a couple days of food during chaos hours. A few days of food for someone working minimum wage is fairly clutch. I bet some rioters in London felt that way. And some were just out to be Dbags and set fires and vandalize. My riot plan has always been peaceful. I don't intend on destroying even corporate WalMart, although I did fantasize about knocking a whole row of wine off the shelves.

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Mykonos

I'm not sure about that. There have been plenty of prison sentences, but they're mostly for the more serious crimes like assault and arson than for petty thievery.

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Guybrush

Well, corporal punishment is still not prohibited in the UK and I'm sure many of the rioters were smacked when they were kids, so that's really a poor argument. The truth might as well be the other way round, that they behave that way because they got smacked.

I wouldn't .. And I don't think the possibility of underlying reasons is a good enough excuse to commit such criminal behaviour. I think people who engage in that behaviour somehow distance themselves from the people who suffer for their crimes. The shop windows they break or the cars they flip belong to someone. Do they stop to consider that?

I saw an interview with a rioter on CNN and he had a chance to justify the riots with something, but he couldn't. It was clear he didn't know why he was doing it.

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Unknown Soldier

But do you really think other countries are any better and don`t have these issues?

Mykonos

I've had long discussions with my parents and other people on this, and along with saying some stupid things I didn't believe in (at one point I was actually pleased with the police being cleared to use violence, then I realised how stupid I was being) and I've decided that the main blame for this is that we aren't a society like we'd believe. The way I now see it, people don't truly work to benefit humanity or to help everyone survive, but often people primarily look out for themselves and their immediate monkeysphere. We don' need to reinvent society like some people are saying, but we need to try and shed this ugly 'every man for himself' idealism that both the rioters and everyone else inour breed of society seems to have inherited.

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Urban Hat€monger ?

That's besides the point really.

Where are the fear of any consequences?
Where's the respect for authority?

Forget being smacked or not, this is about kids that have never had any discipline ever probably due to absent fathers and those in authority not being able to do a damn thing about anything because nobody is allowed to 'punish' anymore because that's the trendy middle class liberal attitude to have these days.

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Mykonos

Hell, there's people of all ages, classes and genders getting involved, despite the common belief that this is all black people and working class teens, so I don't think a lack of discipline is the problem. I'm against corporal punishment though, so I guess I'm biased there.

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Urban Hat€monger ?

I think it is the problem.

I don't know what you saw but I saw loads of people trashing shops & stealing while the police just stood back and let them do it. In fact I saw a lot of quotes from police at the scene saying they feel too powerless to do anything these days due to years of 'progress' in the police force.

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Mojo

No, that is true. I saw it confirmed on the news. A kid who stole mineral water, totalling £3.50, was sentenced to six months in prison. It's examples of discipline like this, coming down bloody hard on people who chose to be a part of this and either instigate or involve themselves in it, why the last few nights have been quiet. In my opinion, anyway.

As I said before, the riots were so huge because before there was a huge police presence on the streets and arrests started to be made, a lot of people didn't see a real threat of pubishment for their actions. They didn't see any realistic consequences for their actions. You start handing out sentences like that, and even threatening to transport those arrested OUT of the capital to detain them once Londons cells filled up to capacity, and it quickly became apparent that should you take part and get caught, you will get punished.

I'm not saying this justifies a pro-stance on corporal punishment but theres a point Urban made that I do agree with, at least with how I see things in this country, and that is that alot of kids fail to see where the consequences are for their actions. I know people who work in schools who most definitely agree with me, that alot of kids feel they have their law on their side. Their parents aren't gonna lay a hand on them, cause they are scared to do it. For most kids this wont be a serious issue, but what about for those who see this as opportunity to see how far they can push them and exactly what they can get out of this for themselves? Then they go to school and the teachers and staff are even more terrified of disciplining a student. They know fine well that a kid can wind them up, push them, verbally abuse them, spit at them, or physically attack them but if they put a hand on them, even in self-defence, they are likely to fired and made out to be a demon in the press for their actions. Most kids don't even need to take it this far, they just need to know that the law is on their side to this degree and a simple threat to a teacher can get them whatever they want and enable them to do whatever they want to.

It's not a real surprise that once riots break out, a lot of young people are more than prepared to go and join in, rob whatever or whoever they want, and be fairly sure they are gonna get away with it.

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