Guybrush

Sorry if my latest post and the replies offend you, Blankety, but I hope you will see that the criticism has root in something real. Your posts are generally hard to understand. If we're to have meaningful dialogue, it would help if you wrote more concisely.

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Something Completely Different

blankety blank

You didn't give up on me son. Read the thread title. It's not a question. And, there was one question for everyone save tore.

Are you who/what you are?

Just answer to yourself, and, maybe you will someday realize who you gave up on. Don't give up. Look at your picture. And, turn that frown upside down





Calling places, collecting careless
Sentences I write them down
So I ignore them, and you should too, you should ignore every word
Is calling what you can surrender
The only way to really learn
That the alphabet made up the words
You could never resist to quote

If all this wisdom is true
Then I doubt it could really have come from you

Then I am what I am not, I am what I am not
So there must be something more then
If I am just a thought I’m not

Faster than the destination
Of knowing where you really are
Is where you’ve always been
Or is it where you began
And happiness, did it happen
Sooner than the doubt it cost you
You learn from the mistakes that I taught you

If all this wisdom is true
Then I doubt it could really have come from you

Then I am what I am not, I am what I am not
So there must be something more then
I am what I am not,
If there’s nothing more then
I am what I am not, I am what I am not
There must be something more then
If I am what I am not

Then I am what I am not, I am what I am not
There must be something more then
I am what I am not,
I know there’s nothing more then
I am what I am not, I am what I am not
I know there’s nothing more then
If I am what I am not

Someday RV, you will understand that this is not about me. Just reflect, and, see who you gave up on. Don't give up trying. Something did not give up on you, or you wouldn't be here. Just look at your picture RV, and, ask yourself why you are stretching your neck up, and, why your frown is so prominent.

It's not an insult. Just an observation. You can certainly answer that question. And, know that you don't need to reply. I understand why. These are not my words, they are yours. If you do not understand, then get to know yourself better than this troll knows you.

Are you who/what you are? That's why people do not understand me. I'm not. Read your post again, and what you were thinking. I'm not your enemy dude.

Neapolitan

I think both people both from the science and religious communities would admit that there are things in this universe we don't have a understanding nor have knowledge of yet. The divide isn't that what we know in this (physical) universe, what we can plainly see and learn about - the divide is about the spiritual. The argument (debate or dialogue whatever you want to call) about God existence is square one and we (both atheist and theist) can't even get passed square one. I can agree 99.99...% of what science has to offer and even how the universe was created but that one little statement that what most won't say - God created the universe - forget about it, it's just an never ending argument. There is no real dialogue. If there was an intelligent religious person here to balance the argument why would he bother?

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blankety blank

I haven't read it yet tore. And, it won't offend me. I don't post for you, or, to try to express my intellectual status. I post to you expecting criticism. I don't post to express critical thought. Do you understand that I might realize the reactions I see? I said, "I have to wonder". I did not have to wonder.

And, I do post what appear to be random thoughts. It appears scattered, because I do not post everything. I cut things out that I don't think I should post, after review. I am attempting to present some concise ideas, but, not to attempt to sway anyone toward my beliefs. And, thank you for the apology; it showed that I may have misjudged you in my mind. It applied to being sociable, and, you showed me that I was wrong.

I read your first paragraph, and, I got a giggle. I'll leave some of this here. I explained things that you mentioned, concerning how i present things. So, just read it, and, know that's why I do what I do. This was prior to me seeing your request, so, from here on, when I want to pick your brain, I'll use an ice pick Tore, that is funny, I don't care who you are.

I am writing here as a means to an end. I cannot just sit here and write a book to myself. So, that's why you see stories, and descriptive metaphors. And, I am not attempting to actually teach, or impress anyone with knowledge. I sometimes get involved in things I shouldn't, and, I get side-tracked, but, I will be concise with you, but, I cannot come directly out to teach. I can only present things as possibilities. Because, if were to present things like this:

What if were to present something like this?

"Forsake the visible realm, make an end of visible things, then approach from the realm of the invisible, and the very Source of Thought will reveal to you how faith in the invisible can be found in the visible realm - those things that are the UN-begotten Father's. Whoever has ears, let him hear!

What reaction would I get from that? I understand exactly what it means. But, if were to even stick my hand through the monitor, and, write in plain view what it means; people would not care or believe. I keep saying that I am not a teacher, I am a learner. Ignore it, it was just used as an example to demonstrate how confusing it could be.

You are a biologist, so, keeping in line with that. Here's one for you. And, he is a U.K. mate. St. Francis Turner. Frank. It may help you know my personality a bit better. And, Frank is one of my favorites. There's a lot of good music that comes from there. I'll read your post, and clarify if I need to. So, from here on, just say I don't understand, and leave it at, and I will if necessary. I appreciate your help. How do you have time for all this? I could spend a lifetime studying all this, and, still not get it all. Wow. My field of studies never included a lot of natural, or physical sciences. I don't about over there, but, here you take biology before chemistry. Does that seem a bit backward? I thought it made no sense at all. One more time I will the question that was the one question not directed specifically to you.

The song is called Photosynthesis, it didn't appear on the screen.



I hope this clears something up. I don't know. But, I won't grow up. I will present things I need more precisely. If no one understands me, then they aren't meant to understand. And, not because I am incoherent. I can write anyway I like. I just need, and prefer to write this way. It's the way I talk. It's not because of any lack of intelligence, or social skills. You of all people should know that we are playing very close to the fire.

But, this is a problem of 'knowing what is in front of your face'. Not, what's in outer space What is in front of your face? You. That's all I can say to that. I can add that it involves knowing from the outside in, and, then we can see things clearly and concisely.

I'll check the post, and, see what you presented. And, I will honor your request, and, go from there.

thanks

Go back to sleep Janszoon, you'll be fine. Someone will you wake up when September ends. Green Day.

This guy makes great videos, so, wake up and watch it Janzoon. It's worth it.

Howard the Duck

i would say i'm a reasonably intelligent religious person but it's mostly like a snake eating itself if i try to even out both sides - a snake that doesn't run out of its own body

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Malaise is THE dominant human predilection.

SATCHMO

My two cents relating to everything beings discussed.

We'll start with the thread title: God is in Your Mind?

I'm inclined to say, Yes. God is in your mind. Most of the time, when someone says that something is all in your mind, it's a dismissal of its validity, however your mind is the point at which you apprehend everything you experience. Things that can be dismissed as mental aberrations can have a tremendous impact on our well being, both positively and negatively. It can be seen in the way that anxiety over events that have not transpired can manifest themselves in poor health conditions when not kept in check. Conversely, a positive attitude or a stable resolution that one can effectively deal with whatever may come one's way can be more critical to one's happiness than the events themselves.

They're are a lot of things-- concepts, beliefs, some of which that even the most staunch, of atheists subscribe to that are basically figments of one's own imagination, more specifically one's ego. Anytime you identify yourself as yourself you are making a distinction between you and everything that you perceive to not be you. This is the essence of duality and the function of the ego: This is me and that "out there" is everything else, which is not me.

Now the ego performs a significant and very practical function in our lives, because without it navigating the world, both physically, and our lives mentally, would be very difficult, but its drawbacks can be quite negative at times. it is where all of our irrational fear resides, our need for validation, our unquenchable desires, and our false and often times degraded self-image. It is the impetus for us to be smarter, thinner, faster, richer, funnier. It craves things from outside of it's perceived self for its own validity and satisfaction and more often than not, it is not satisfied with any one of these things for too long.

Religion's best intentions are to circumvent the negative effect of the ego, however the problem is that the ego comes into the fore when creating and promoting a religion. Essentially, in my opinion, religion is what happens when spirituality collides with bureaucracy. When adherents of a religion act out of a very egoic place self-righteousness erupts and ultimately, because 2000 years ago there was no separation of church and state-- church was the state, the core fundamentals of what all religions seek to express become perverted and maligned, doctrine and dogma gets set in place and the essence of what a religion like christianity originally sought to express disappears forever. Incidentally Tore, the confirmation bias that you spoke of earlier in the thread as pertaining to the way that most people stereotypically think of atheists also apply to Christians and other religious followers. I'm sure you know that, but I thought it would be an interesting thing to make note of.

Now religious fundamentalists and atheists commit two respective acts which are the directly inverted to each other. The religious fundamentalist takes that which is personal and subjective and tries to make it compulsory and objective, the atheist in turn applies that which was never intended to be understood literally and scrutinizes it objectively with the same investigatory method that one would use to examine a bacteria culture under a microscope, which is only a natural rection toward someone who is asserting that something is a valid natural phenomena.

For example, a fundamentalist Christian will assert that the book of Genesis is an accurate account of the creation of the universe and mankind, as well as mankind's subsequent fall. Anyone who's reasonably intelligent, has a rudimentary knowledge of science, is not a Christian, and somewhat rational will react by saying that such an assertion is completely false and this is why. What you have after some time is the evolution vs. intelligent design debate that is an ongoing feud and ridiculous and an ultimate waste of time. However, the atheistic stance is defensive and any subsequent investigation into what the book of Genesis says is usually done with the intention of finding errors rather than extracting the allegory and metaphor that exists within it. The book of Genesis is not an accurate representation of how the universe came to be, but it is an excellent allegory of the evolution of human consciousness from the point of humans being, for the most part, instinctual creatures to being largely egoic in nature. If anyone reads the bible with objectivity and a genuine desire to see what the original writers were trying to convey--not uniformly, of course, because The Bible is essentially an anthology and anybody who reads it should know that there are certain parts which are to be understood more literally than others, and other things which can be casually dismissed as either not occurring, erroneous, or simply not relevant to our current time and culture-- they may be surprised at what is actually in their, but needs to be extrapolated with a little effort and creative thinking.

To get back to my original thesis, God is in the mind. Where else would god exist? We have a vision in literal terms of God in an office in some alternate universe where he has his feet propped up on his desk and he's staring at a mosaic of video screens keeping tabs on who's been naughty and who's been nice, but that's simply ludicrous. God is everywhere, non-localized, and so are you. It's only your ego that makes you believe otherwise.

blankety blank

Tore wrote:


Just quickly here. i am putting together a reply that will be concise, and, hopefully for someone, you might see it clearly. But, you must have an imagination, because, you imagined that i actually support selective breeding. No, i have no idea where you might have imagined that.

i am actually a firm believer in something greater than us. i denied myself completely, and, picked up my own cross, and carried it for the cause. So, i have no idea where you imagined that. sorry if you got that impression.

i am going to post a song for all of you atheists. It's a good song from a dude from the U.K. named Frank Turner. I think he is still number one on my last.fm page. It's for you, and, enjoy it and clap along. You'll like it.



There's the anthem. No need to reply, i am going to pick your brain. i want to be clear and concise. it will take a bit. enjoy. übermensch?

Guybrush

Good post, Satch

When it comes to the bible and interpreting it literally, I often wonder why some people do it with such eagerness. Made up stories with some morale or message have always been a popular way of passing down the wisdom of ages and it puzzles me why people should believe the bible to be any different in that respect.

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Something Completely Different

blastingas10

I'm very open to the impossibility of god, though, and there's just not enough evidence to prove to me that there isn't such a thing. Our understanding of the universe is always evolving, Im not sure if well ever understand everything; Chances are we probably won't. I'm mostly agnostic, I think it requires a leap of faith on both ends of the spectrum, whether you believe in god or not.

I agree that saying "god is in your mind" isn't a dismissal of validity of god. I think it's very probable that this is the case. And maybe when we die, there is a hallucination of an after-life. It doesn't make it any less real, to me.

Salami

How then would you want to define reality?
Is touch, taste, hearing and seeing enough for an experience to be considered "real"?