Vertigo

I used to be, that is to say I turned to religion after my Dad died in 2005. I guess I was looking for comfort, an answer, maybe something that could make me understand and, in some small way, accept what had happened. After 18 months, I was completely disillusioned and the only thing I got out of church was I couldn't do anything right!!

It also became harder and harder to argue scientifically proven facts against religious claims, which are nothing more than fables and legend.

Vertigo

Not all all. I believe that there is some vast, unimaginable power connected to the Universe as a whole, that everything and everyone is connected somehow, but that the actual concept of this is way beyond our comprehension. I find it unacceptable and ignorant that religious groups can have the audacity to pin a label on this power, tell us that they know what it expects of us and what will happen if we don't.
Death? I think everyone, if they're honest, has an amount of fear about death. It's the one part of our lives that we aren't prepared for and, maybe, if it was discussed more rather than avoided it would be easier to accept. I do hope that there is something beyond death, that the rest of time won't just spin out into total darkness. I'd like to think this life is the first of (or one of the) steps that we all take before moving on.

Guybrush

I don't believe we experience anything after death and it really doesn't concern me at all. I think trying to imagine what it is like being dead is a bit like trying to imagine what you felt like in those billions of years the universe existed before you were born. Of course you didn't feel like anything because you didn't exist, just like I believe you won't after you die.

With my limited imagination, I imagine that "me" existing temporarily and then ceasing to exist is better than "me" existing infinitely.

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PoorOldPo

I think this is a very interesting point, and one that has passed my mind before. I completely agree with you, it doesn't matter in the end whether or not we experience anything after death. Whatever happens, it won't be any different that what happened to every other person on this planet that lived and died. I think that believing in something after death isn't necessarily a state of denial though, I don't believe everything ends at death. We have no memory of what came before us, we will probably have no memory of our life in this physical form after our death ( if you think there is something after death ). Although this kind of compounds the sense of redundancy that comes with the " afterlife ", I think it is quite compelling as well as slightly precarious, I am not sure we are really able to comprehend what happens when we die. I don't think I have really concluded this comment, mainly because of how conflicted I am about the subject matter.

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Hitch

When I die, my body will rot (Bertrand Russell). Seems about right. Well, at the least, we all get to find out when we're dead .

With regards to Heaven and Hell, the idea of eternal praise and 'happiness' (heaven) seems extremely undesirable. With regards to hell, even in North Korea, you can die and be free. But considering there is this unlikely notion of hell, the prospect of a sneak-peak at Galileo or Oscar Wilde seems like a worthwhile effort.

RVCA

Tore is like what I would be if I were more polite, eloquent, intelligent, and patient.

Guybrush

All interested in this subject should check out an article in Scientific American titled "How Critical Thinkers Lose Their Faith in God".

>> How Critical Thinkers Lose Their Faith in God: Scientific American

It's an article about some studies that show how intuitive thinking, which is a sort of standard thinking most "run on", promotes religious beliefs while analytical and critical thinking, which generally takes more effort, does the opposite. It's interesting as it can tell us something about why some people believe while others don't.

edit :

Just a little quote from the study to hopefully pique your interest :

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Vertigo

That sentence is particularly relevant to me. I gained an greater interest in general science and, in particular, astronomy some years ago. Subsequently, following the death of my Dad I was began to attend church regularly for the first time since I was a young schoolchild and, occassionally, reading the bible.

Here, on one side of the discussion were proven scientific facts - I read facts such as humans evolved from billions of years of countless recombined DNA and RDA and that the carbon atoms in our bodies were made in the heart of our Sun's nuclear furnace. Then I read, in the Bible, that God created Man, then because this all-knowing, all powerful diety didn't have the foresight to realise Man would be lonely, he thus created Woman. From a rib. Then there was Noah who lived to be 950. As you do. This, on top of the water-walking, water-to-wine claims was, to cut a long story short, like a slap to the face and, since then, religious claims have been as believable to me as Peter Pan and the Three Bears.

I wonder what percentage of people who, if they stopped and really thought about all the religious claims could honestly say that they believed them.

Interesting article.

Hitch

I find the tests and results quite interesting but not really convinced about the terminology used. It looks like they relate 'intuition' to system 1 (and especially religious faith). Intuition can get a bit vague at times as it encompasses many other things such as a quick impulse on fixing a computer problem. All of it is based on your previous cognitive experience. I'm guessing that if you were to witness something strange, your first impulse would be to examine and reason it and not turn to the supernatural.

The advancements in civilization and science in the past what? few thousand years is still extremely small in evolutionary terms for the brain to expand its prefrontal cortex where large percentage of the decision making activities take place. We also don't require the 'flight or fight' mechanism as much as before. It does seem strange though (or maybe even explains a lot) that when I read these religious texts, a lot of it seems to be based on fear - fear of dark, fear of death, fear of the unknown, sometimes even fear of the known, like the origin of our species....and when many of it gives the impression that it has the answers to everything, I find that it explaining absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Howard the Duck

it still manifests itself during other kinds of stress, and if unreleased, it becomes a threat to the health and well-being of a person

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Malaise is THE dominant human predilection.