I think you're overplaying the freeloading portion of the underclass. Lets spin this around, if you are against the idea of universal healthcare because you don't want to suffer to support these 'freeloaders' why should those that are genuinely trying to get their lives together suffer for them instead?

How would they? Healthcare, largely is preventative. Modern Medicine isn't magic. They can keep you alive but not well - generally.

Now if you're talking about the cost of food, that I'll give you. The problems in America primarily rise from entrenched, institutional, systemic problems. McDonalds can "feed" a family of 5 for about $15. You can't buy a full meal at WholeFoods for that.

To that end, i'd agree with you, but that has nothing to do with Healthcare, and Universal Healthcare isn't going to fix that issue.

There are plenty of people across America that need healthcare but can't afford it. Public healthcare could help people with issues that are keeping them from being able to work, maybe then they can stop scrounging off the state huh?

Don't make the assumption I am a republican. I don't think anyone is Scrounging, My point is, medicine works best when its preventative not reactive. So people who eat right and don't drive around the corner for smokes aren't folks we should be throwing money at.

Many apologies, you did use the word "freeloaders" and in my defense I have been reading comments from the yahoo community despite reminding myself to stay off that site.

As you've already pointed out, not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford to eat healthily and an addiction is something that should be covered by public healthcare. I agree that those on a self destructive path do put a burden on not only public spending but the hospitals themselves, however denying public healthcare just for the sake of a few bad eggs isn't solving anything. We should work on getting public healthcare first before trying to model it perfectly otherwise nothing will get done about it.

Well I've said we have systemic problems. I understand the upsidedown price of food. Though to be direct, its highly cost effective to be a vegetarian. I think the cultural emphasis on meat does a lot of folks in.

Despite that, we currently have a system for healthcare directed at those who cannot afford it. As for addiction...I don't know if I agree with you.

Ummm, yes you can. Multiple meals actually.

Rick Perry has dropped out.

Anyone else believe that the next 2 or 3 presidents will all have to deal with a brain drain from US citizens who defect to more liberal European countries? I see governments like those of Spain, France, Switzerland, etc. giving more autonomy to their local judicial and legislative branches that can effectively handle social and economic issues. However, with the rash of idiotic/oppressive laws that are being signed into existence has a majority of young intellectuals upset at this country's political system. Will we see a migration en masse of college-educated academics leaving the country for less restrictive waters? or will they side with the government and become puppets for conglomorations like big pharma/big agro/big everything?

No more so than when the same sorts of things happened in previous decades I suppose.

If you're eating chickpeas and hummus, but if you tried to replicate what you get at McDonalds for $15 at WholeFoods - no you can't.

Barack Obama will be reelected as President in 2012. I know that will happen.

No















Ron Paul will happen

:laughing:

McDonald's isn't a real meal either.

Barack Obama is working to fix the disaster that George Bush created for 8 years including this worthless iraq war. I am tired of Republicans. They just want America to go down to become Wall Street America. Obama wants a fair America.

You know, sometimes I think theres a MOd-Cave challenge to troll me. I'm aware that McDonalds isn't real food, but if you're saying "I want a hamburger, fries, and a salad" And you say that at McDonalds, and then you say it at wholeFoods - you get different items for different prices.

This started over healthcare, and the reason Food was brought up is because I said the issue was systemic. in other words, the people you're attempting to help via Universal Healthcare will not be helped, 1.) because they don't have access to quality food, and 2.) it will lead your government to go broke trying to give everyone healthcare, OR you won't give everyone healthcare.

What's all this not being able to get access to quality food bull****?

I can go to the supermarket and buy a big bag of frozen vegetables for less than £1.
And frozen vegetables are better for you than fresh ones because the nutrients keep better after freezing.

There are plenty of ways of making good cheap meals, it's not down to lack of quality products It's down to people who rely on ready meals having no idea about how to cook raw ingredients and/or lazyness.

Honestly, if you believe that the produce you get from your local supermarket is anything but horrible for both your body and our environment then you are sorely lacking in basic understanding of how the industrial agriculture systems of this world work. The problem is that most, if not all of the world's average consumers are ignorant to what good food looks like, what it nutritionally contains, and how to prepare it. For those of us living in cities, towns, or anywhere that large-scale production of livestock, produce, and food products are being grown/raised/processed, it is virtually impossible to acquire wholesome, properly grown, organic ingredients without long distance import. In most developed countries, the "organic" or "natural" food labels that commonly dot the supermarkets are unregulated by federal agencies and are aimed more at marketing than educating the consumer. Therefore, while it is cheaper to produce vast quantities of GMO cultivars that have been selected for their finishing time and yield as opposed to taste or nutritional content, it is neither more efficient nor more economically sensible to do so. Industrial agriculture destroys the Earth's soil through the use of chemical fertilizers, pesticides, and other substances that mutate the way plants grow. And in order to produce such amounts as to feed the staggering population of the U.S. these Big Farm corporations have been allowed to continue to engage in horrible acts of animal cruelty and environmental damage without repercussion. The development of new super bacteria and insects that can withstand the most toxic pesticides known to man has lead to the rise of new sicknesses and mutations on diseases that are untreatable in humans. The global food system is broken. It is a cheap simulacrum to what the natural process of food production really should be, and disrupts the symbiotic nature between humanity and our environment.

I guess America is just not ready to elect a dumb Texan...

Another one, you mean.

Yup, that's the joke.

Cracked said something I can agree with, weird...
The 5 Stupidest Habits You Develop Growing Up Poor | Cracked.com

I agree with Anticipation and I believe I agree with Big3. There are points on different sides that are valid.

The feeding a family of 5 thing (I can only imagine, I only have to worry about myself and one other on our food stamp budget) at McDonalds vs. Whole Foods is interesting, but to put it in perspective, at McDonalds, for 15 dollars to feed 5 people? Everyone gets 2 McDoubles or 2 McChickens and a value fry, and hopefully you're in a state that doesn't tax like Oregon (1/50 chance or so [I don't know what other states are sales tax free]) because that 15 dollars will end up being 16 after tax, if not 16.50 (I guess dad will have to take the hit and forfeit a dollar menu item). Altogether, 2 McDonald's burgers and a value fry would leave the average working man still hungry ... although the kids will probably be okay with it.

I've never shopped at Whole Foods or seen one for that matter but I understand what kind of establishment it is. Anyway, I'm going to be generic here so if they don't sell some of this stuff I don't know any better, but Top Ramen individual soups cost roughly 25-30 cents each. Everyone can have one for less than two dollars. That's not great for you, and that's not super filling, but at least everyone got theirs for under two dollars. That leaves roughly 13 dollars left. Buy some ground beef. You can probably get 2 pounds and a box of hamburger helper for under ten dollars. Buy a thing of milk and that's dinner for 15. There are a lot of combinations of things you can get at the store for cheap, because no one wants to eat top ramen everyday, or any particular meal over and over again. Get some mac and cheese and a pack of hot dogs. Mac and cheese hot dogs for the whole family will probably cost less than ten dollars.

McDonald's is fast-food (duh); it's as easy as show up and eat. So that's nice... but on a budget, you should know that there aren't a lot of combinations so it will get old really fast. Maybe as an occasional treat you could grab some dollar menu items for the family, but it is NO way to live day to day on a budget.

I'm glad I live in a farming area. I have access to local produce. We get our eggs all of a couple hundred feet away. The best thing ever though, is the strawberries. Not those malformed, unnaturally large and almost bitter ones from California. These things are small and sweet.

http://visitcranelake.com/images/blo...rawberries.jpg

****ing Newt Gingrich? Really? **** you South Carolina. But I still say if I could eliminate one candidate right now, it would be Santorum. That mans ideas need to die today.

What is wrong with Newt Gingrich?

He's a ****ing joke of a politician. Has no chance of beating Obama. His ideas are frivolous and empty, and his entire campaign of conservative and family values is based on lie after lie. He will stand to be the biggest piece of **** candidate America has had since John Kerry.

What isn't wrong with Newt Gingrich?

I don't know how anyone could put their trust in Gingrich. But it shouldn't surprise anyone who saw/heard the audience that Fox News debate...

As far as healthy food, I too am fortunate (in this aspect, anyways) to live in a rural place, and I have a large back yard where my family grows a garden every summer. So all summer long (and even into the fall, thanks to our small greenhouse), we almost exclusively eat our own tomatoes, beans, peas, zucchini, peppers, raspberries, and even watermelon. We also buy local eggs and chicken.

What's wrong with John Kerry?

^ please be joking.

I don't know if we've met, but I don't let people get away with making statements and not explaining them. Most especially when they compare two things that aren't obvious (like Newt and Kerry).

I also really enjoy this sort of response I've quoted above because I feel they add value to a conversation, and further everyones understanding of the topic.

My name's Big3, and I approve this message.

I think I'd rather have Obama than all the remaining republicans, except Ron Paul. I also don't think Gingrich could beat Obama, but then again, he might. He won South Carolina. I think people may be stupid enough to vote for him over Obama.

There is no direct comparison between John Kerry and Newt Gingrich, John Kerry is a traitor to the veterans of the Vietnam war. Not to mention the fact that he is another radical leftist who preaches the garbage lie of global warming. And in terms of beating Obama you think Romney can? Or Ron Paul? Ridiculous, Romney is too moderate to show a stark contrast between himself and Obama. Ron Paul is a joke, I am sorry but if you think that taking out Bin Laden was a bad idea AND you believe that the Middle East wouldn't hate the U.S if we just left them alone then you need to open your eyes. I will go ahead and say that Ron Paul has excellent monetary policy, but that is about it. I have put my trust in Gingrich, but then again I am a staunch conservative who would never vote for a Marxist Leftist idiot even if you put a gun to my head. And until you have actually read the mans plan in detail, you can't claim it's not bold. I haven't heard one other person call out the media for protecting Barack Obama, just look at what CNN did at the last debate. And the list goes on and on. If you have actually paid attention you would notice that the media is eliminating the person who wan't to change the current establishment. Herman Cain was singled out because he wanted to reform the tax code, and not to mention he was an outsider who is a threat to the big wigs in Washington. Gingrich is a threat because he actually sees Washington, and Democrats, and Liberals for what they are. Big spending politicians who want to slowly change this country over to a Socialist European model. I don't care if Socialism works, I don't want that political view in my country, I believe in Capitalism and less government, it is up to the individual to make a name for himself, not to get help from the government.

That makes sense, TheBig3.

I don't think we should put Gingrich in office because I can't see him beating Obama. Plus his past as a drug-lobbyist will come to haunt him and the lesser of the several evils running for the candidacy seem to be better options.

Not that any of these candidates are ideal, as (most) Americans reside by the clothespin vote in modern times, it's not very likely that this will change in the upcoming election.

Ron Paul was not against killing bin laden. He thinks we didn't do it fast enough. He voted to go after him right after 9/11. You can say anything you want about him. I know what he's about and I support him 100%. He's the only one who can challange the state of things and actually make some changes. Newt Gingrich isn't going to change anything. Mark my words.

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:banghead:

I'm so jealous of the European model. I don't think it can be implemented here easily, especially with people like you that don't care if it works or not, but it is a great system in my opinion. Reading your post was all :rofl: and :banghead:

lol, I don't even know where to begin with this mountain of absurdity.

Newt Gingrich, after becoming speaker, bailed out Mexico to satisfy his Goldman Sachs lobbyists. Newt Gingrich did a commercial for Al Gore, with Nancy Pelosi for the benefit of ending global warming. Newt Gingrich was paid exorbitant amounts of money by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as a lobbyist.

I would suggest that if you give a damn about politics or this country you stop regurgitating talking points and do some research. These facts are a Google away. Newt Gingrich is a smart guy with some sharp ideas, but he is too easily swayed on the matter of principles, he's too easily distracted by power and money.

And for the record, John Kerry is a Purple-Heart winning war veteran. He is most likely to replace Clinton in 2012 if Obama is reelected. He has a far more material track-record on foreign policy that almost anyone sitting currently on the right.

I don't know who you're calling a Marxist Lefty, but there isn't a Marxist in the field, Left or Right. I'd read up on what that means also. Primarily you'd need to dissolve privately owned property all-together. No one has hinted at that.