SATCHMO Spouts About Science, Life, and Isms: Another Goddamn Religion Thread

[SATCHMO]

Originally Posted by RVCA

Before I engage you on this topic Satchmo, you must do two things for me.

-You must clarify more clearly what you mean by "the positive aspects of religion". Eager curiosity? Psychology of the religious experience? What do you actually mean when you reference these things?

-You must present an argument for why it is desirable to pursue these "positive aspects" I just asked you to clarify. Why should I spend time dredging up a counter-argument to an argument that has not been made? Simply saying that religion can bring positive things to the human experience is not enough.

I've been vague quite intentionally. I want this to be an exercise of thought, not an argument-- which an argument certainly can be, however I presented things in question format because I believe that the natural atheistic posture tends to be one of invalidation and I don't want that to be the initial response in this thread. This is what I'm asking you:

What is it that is intrinsic to the religious experience that makes it a positive life enhancing experience when it turns out to be such? Can we take these intrinsic components and divorce them from the supernatural, dogmatic, and oppressive bulk of what religion presents us with and seek to understand how these components may effectively enhance our mental and emotional well-being and further utilize those to add greater depth to the human experience?

I am talking about the psychology of the religious experience, not so much the speaking-in-tongues, quasi-delusional aspect of the experience, but human growth psychology as it pertains to religion.

[RVCA]

Okay, that is much easier to respond to. Yes, as a "hard atheist", I would agree that religion in its most commonly understood form (a set of beliefs and behaviors) offers something that can enrich the human experience. However, is this positive aspect of religion something that can be achieved solely under the umbrella of a supernatural, dogmatic, and oppressive system of thought-- something like many of the major Abrahamic or Eastern religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc)?

On that point, I'm inclined to say "No." I think you can enrich the human experience with the benefits of religion without necessarily resorting to religious beliefs and behavior. It's difficult to go into detail here because I have not been presented with a platform with which to elaborate on, but I can give this example:

Though I do not believe in anything beyond the natural world, and though I try to refrain from spending my time doting on things beyond the scope of science and logic, I am regularly awed and humbled by what we do know about the universe as a result of rational, scientific inquiry. I consider it a hobby of mine to seek education in what the forefront of technology has enabled us, as one species inhabiting one infinitesimal corner of existence, to understand about the world in which we inhabit. We live in an era several hundred years after the industrial revolution, where quality of life per capita has skyrocketed and advances in every field of life are made with rapidity that history has never seen before. Why would anyone choose not to take advantage of these facts? Why would anyone choose to spend their time in a world of unfalsifiable guesswork that was conjured up primarily in the bronze age when they could instead enrich their lives with what humanity has worked over two millennia to understand?

When you speak of the "psychological" aspect of religion, I imagine you're speaking of the feelings associated with coexisting in a community of people who claim to hold answers to life's most thought-provoking questions. This is a powerful set of feelings to have, and in that sense, you can take "science" as just one more religion in the world that provides a source for those feelings. Science is my dogma, my creed, and my code, and I think Neil Tyson summarizes it quite nicely.

"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance."

That awe, that sense of connectedness and wonder, that sense of being a part of something greater than yourself that is so commonly associated with the religious experience? To me, there is no greater source of these things than our global community of an ever-progressing world of scientific inquiry.

[Kim in Montana]

Alas, I had the perfect little 20 minute video to go with this thread, but I can't post it until I have made 15 posts??? That is a . . . highly interesting rule...
Perhaps you can try googling alain_de_bo or Atheism 2.0

[jackhammer]

I don't believe in God or whatever name is given to him.

I greatly admire peoples faith regarding their need to have an outside force that they can't control but admire or participate in.

I sent a very long email to the vicar who presided over Elaines funeral service thanking him but I also expressed my own doubts about religion and he still hasn't replied over a month later which reinforced my own personal stance regarding religion I.E he doesn't have an answer that could begin to satisfy my despondency at this time.

Religion is a need for many people whether it relates to them on a physical or other level and I wouldn't dare to deny them that right but I didn't believe in a god before and I most certainly don't believe at all since a decent family has been left motherless.