Well let's wait and see now that Maryland is another state to legalize Gay Marriage.

it's not legal yet, it still hast to be signed by our governor, and if there's great opposition towards that, then there might be a problem.

Just think, when gay marraige arrives in Minnesota, you'll be free to marry the man of your dreams, not saying that you will or anything......but at least you'd have the choice.

But he still has to live in Minnesota. ;)

Do they live in log cabins and have bears wandering around?

The bears are hoping to escape to Canada. Poor bears.

Hey now, if you're a white, Scandinavian, Lutheran, and probably overweight blue collar male, Minnesota is a great state to live in.

Polls and surveys suggest that this is not the case and/or that negative sentiments are towards gay marriage are declining.

Gallup

Pew Research Center

I thought their favourite hang-out was San Francisco.

Only some species of bear.

http://www.beyond-the-pale.co.uk/tutuBear.jpg

I bet Franco Pepe Kalle would love to share a shack with these two bears.

Not to take away from a good ribbing here but the twin cities are actually pretty cool. Fantastic art, design, theater and music. Husker Du, the Replacements, Atmosphere, Doomtree, Prince... not too shabby. And, relating to the subject of the thread, they always seemed pretty gay-friendly too.

And the hottest girl in MB history lives there.

Spike :love: :love: :love:

Best thing about Minnesota is Fargo, especially that wood chipper scene.

http://static6.businessinsider.com/i...pper-scene.jpg

Fargo is great but I think the best thing about Minnesota is this place:

http://polishplate.com/_content_imag...T_331_nyes.jpg

I laughed so hard at this!

Yeah, but all of those things only relate to Minneapolis, not Minnesota as a whole. The scandinavians, lutherans, and overweight blue collar workers can be found outside of the twin cities. People aren't nearly as gay-friendly outside of Minneapolis and Saint Paul either, hence FPK (jk :D).

Where is this?

But most people in the state live in the twin cities metro area so the things I mentioned still would apply to most Minnesotans.

What's FPK?

On Hennepin, close to the river.

Why was it so good?

You shoulda hit up Matt's Bar and got a disgusting hamburger filled with boiling hot cheese.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/27/55...4b1b8dbeec.jpg

MN is okay. It's kinda like skyrim. Mostly white nords with some races coming and ****ing up our wellfare system

Franco Pepe Kalle- Music Banter's very own voice of reason.

Like the Skyrim analogy:D

Who has yet to tell me what moral reasons there are for homosexuality being wrong and why tradition is more important than civil rights...

But since he's clearly busy in a shack with those two bears, I will have to wait.

I doubt he'll ever be able to walk around on two legs ever again, but thinking about it......bears usually roam around on all fours anyway.

Perhaps first you should go through the effort of explaining why this is a civil rights issue.

I'm not really sure what a moral reason is... Morals are arbitrary unless they come from a concept that helps the society. The real question is, what (if anything) about homosexuality shouldn't be embraced by a fair and equal society? Does homosexuality infringe on the fair rights of non-homosexuals?

And I kind of see what hip-hop-bunny is saying about civil rights. Regardless of whether it is considered one by law (no idea if it is or not), why should it be considered a civil right? To me marriage is a religious institution - and not one that I particularly value anyway.

But if the government is giving out benefits based on marriage, then un-married couples should at least be able to access those exact same benefits and be accounted for in the same matter in all respects.

On the other hand, maybe legally recognizing marriage is an infringement on the civil rights of single people. I guess I don't really fully understand the issues but I think it has something to do with how you file tax returns and bla bla bla.

I already I won't give a rat ass if they approve gay marriage in Minnesota. I don't give a rat ass about it.

It makes no difference. Most Americans still favor traditional marriage.


Are you kidding me? BOO, that is so lame. Please.
That looks like a cool place. I have never been there personally.

In the long narrow barroom at one I end I saw a polka band rocking their asses out on stage, despite all being over 70, to a crowd that was equal parts whitehairs and hipster college kids. In the big room next to that, which contained a bar straight out of 1970s, there was an old lady playing some serious piano for a mixed-age karaoke crowd. In the room next to that, also straight out of the 70s, I had a great dinner. I thought it was a neat place, and very friendly.

Haha, this is very convincing :D. Will certainly have to check this place out soon.

There has always been a surprisingly large MN population on this website.

You should come to Minnesota. It is a good decent state. I love Minnesota. Everyone is here.

Blablablabla. I am not homophobic. I already stated that I have spoken to few gay people myself. I gave them good respect. They gave respect to me. I am nice to homosexuals.

I like being redundantly redundant too.

I'm just giving you a hard time. i realize that you respect gays. The only thing is, in the US, everyone is supposed to be equal. If there is a group of people who don't have the right to get married, that doesn't seem very equal to me. So what I'm really saying is that respect alone isn't enough in this case. You should fight for everyone to have equal rights.

PS Sparky lives in minnesota

Yes it does.

But gay marriage does become a civil right if gay marriage is not recognized by government, denying it is a breach of civil rights. Its hardly a morality issue either, as it doesn't infringe on the lives of non-gays.

Sounds great and it even has homophobes that live in shacks.

And Neil Gaiman!

\

Slightly unrelated, but here's an article about the unintended consequences of anti-discrimination legislation....

off topic/

I'm assuming you mean subjective, and on that assumption I would say that ALL morals are subjective, whether or not they benefit society, since the idea that humans should work to benefit or desire to be a part of society is itself subjective.

I have already in this thread talked very extensively why I believe this is the case, but I'll give you a link to my journal article i which I explain some of my thoughts as to why objections to it from a moral perspective (particularly religious) are in my opinion false here.

I'd answer your question specifically, but right I am being forced by a huge man with a whip to go and perform some strange homoerotic sex scene set in a rugby changing room where they make us under 17 year olds fight each other naked. It's technically child abuse towards me, but apparently it's legal in the states which is where they will sell the footage.

I'll be back - but before then please tell me why you think gay rights is SEPARATE from CIVIL rights. Please tell me where the distinction is.
I'll add right now that being gay is not something one can have any control over, no more than the colour of your skin, so denying them marriage makes as much sense from a civil rights perspective as denying black people marriage or asian people marriage.

I'm guessing this link is in response to the morality issue of gay marriage and how it can infringe on others. Well the Catholic Church is a very outdated institution and very out of touch with the modern world on various issues, so much so that in many very strict catholic societies such as Latin America and in Spain, Portugal and Italy etc it has lost a lot of followers over the last couple of decades, either through people losing interest or following other religions. If we look at morailty and how it has infringed on others, the Catholic Church must rank amongst the worst violators of this in the history of man. The link you've provided is really just a perfect example of how the Catholic Church needs to update its doctrine.

For the record, I'm quite religious and also a Catholic and I'm also one of those people that stopped following the Catholic Church years ago, as I just didn't believe in so many of their doctrines anymore. I now view religion as a contract between God and myself and really don't feel the need to use a third party such as a church to practice it.

So if you need to impress me with examples of how gay marriage infringes on others, you need to do better than The Tablet.

Eh, I'll be back with more soon, but I wanted to add this, to clear up a common misconception.

Not quite:

on page 4

The underline is mine.

That really is what I was trying to say: "experiencing little or no sense of choice" really to me reinforces the point that you have no control on whether you end up gay or not.
Some people say that it is also affected by a lack of a strong male influence in the household you were brought up in, but that's not really the full picture.A lot of gay people certainly didn't want to be gay, for example in the times when it was publically considered repulsive, why make a stand for a life choice you made a decision over?
Why would you risk persecution for something you decided on a whim?

Why is marriage a civil right? What does this mean?!?

What is marriage, and why should government have anything to do with it?

And morals aren't always subjective, they can be very logical. Humans are animals that are naturally social - morals are just social behaviours.