"...according to the national laws governing the exercise of this right."

Regardless, I'm all for gay marriage (for that matter I feel that people should have the 'right' to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't directly harm others), but I think it's fair to assume that most homosexuals are fairly progressive and liberal, and as such don't 'they' (kind of taboo to refer to an entire group of people with this word) see that marriage is becoming an outdated institution?

Look, I personally don't think anyone should be gay but if someone is gay then that is fine with me. I don't care anyway. But as I said, I am not a homophobe. Plus, seriously insulting people for not being for gay marriage is the major factor into why people oppose gay marriage. So what. Who cares. If Minnesota legalizes gay marriage, will I give a rat ass. Not a bit. I won't even waste my time reappealing it. I will go live my live. That is important to me.

People oppose gay marriage because they're hateful bigots like you.

Freedom of choice, as it is for any heterosexual couple.

Seems like you do care though, based on your hostility on here, to people who want to exercise the right to get married. People of any type of sexual persuasion, should have the option to determine whether they want to get married or not, once they are over a certain age.

English is not your first language is it?

Are you playing a game where you try to make every sentence contradict the previous one?

Could you please justify this claim? I think the insults are usually reserved for gay people in general, people who oppose gay marriage are more often asked politely what business they have dictating how other people express their love for each other. It may be different over in the USA, but I'd still take this claim to be an assumption.
Even here in England, there are huge amounts of insults directed casually towards gays in general, really intimidating gay people who often feel scared of telling people around them how they feel.

I'm saying this because I really don't think you're right about claiming insulting opposition to gay marriage is a predominant issue.

Please keep in mind that there are consequences to letting your emotions, and your opinions get the best of you. This is directed to everybody; it's heated territory, so we're just heading off any trouble before it comes to a head.

Okay, I can respect that you have an opinion that you don't like to force on people. So moving on, may I ask why you have that opinion? Why don't you think anyone should be gay? Is it for religious reasons perhaps? It's perfectly fine if it is.

Eh, the only somewhat-convincing arguments I've seen to this regard is the supposed uptick in male homosexuality amongst the youngest of an unusually large string of brothers (4+, if I recall correctly).... which is plausible, as it'd be an individual response to stimuli.

What isn't plausible, however, is the notion that the Earth is tapping out morse-code to Pregnant Women everywhere, and that somehow more gays are being born in Europe because of Chinese over-population. That is, unless you're willing to indulge some sort of mystical, Gaia hypothesis....

Oh no, ya got me.

Kind of a sad thing to be proud of, but I would wager that you don't have much else.

Man you watch your little mouth. OK. I do not hate Gay People. LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR. I DO NOT HATE GAY PEOPLE. Come on. GROW UP.

It is because I believe in my own judgement. I believe it. I will not force things down people's throat. As I said, I personally I am for Traditional Marriage but if Gay Marriage is legalized, I won't care because gays get what they want. No problem with me if you ask. In fact I have seen a few gay people myself and I always welcome them. In fact I told most of my friends that I am not for gay marriage and I don't insult gay people. I believe gay couples should have a public union and also gays should be able to adopt children and I believe that gays can get health benefits that everyone can get. I also believe that gays should be able to serve the army openly. See I am not a homophobe. I am personally not for Gay Marriage.

Can you please tell me why I am a bigot for opposing gay marriage. I don't know if what mind are you but please explain to me HOW I AM A BIGOT FOR OPPOSING GAY MARRIAGE.

You say they can serve in the military, eh? Tell me, why should they die for your rights, but not for their own?

Well I am making a point that gays should be able to serve the army as who they are. That is all. That is common sense. I am not for gay marriage but I am for Gay Civil Union.

Why won't you answer my question? I feel ignored and lonely :(

What are your reasons for opposing gay marriage - apart from justifying your position from tradition?
Remember tradition is lees important than people's rights, and an anachronistic tradition, such as slavery, is something that ought to be abandoned if people's rights are being infringed.

So lets get this nonsense of yours cleared up now.

You welcome gay people, you believe that they should have some kind of public union, YOU EVEN BELIEVE NOW THAT THEY SHOULD ADOPT KIDS, but you still oppose gay marriage!!!

Instead of sticking to your rusty guns that were firing blanks, you've now done a u-turn and have embraced certain gay liberties, whilst still slamming gay marraige.

Your debate is full of contradictions, but I'm sure you'll plod on, in an attempt to find some type of moral high ground.

This is confusing me (;)) - you must therefore say that your only basis for objection is an appeal to tradition?

I am sorry for not answering your questions. I was about to respond to your question but then some idiots insulted by falsely accusing me for being a homophobe.

I already told you why I oppose gay marriage. I will only give you two reasons. One is that to me, a marriage is meant to be a two opposite unions to come together and become one couple not two same unions. Second, I just personally can't imagine gay marriage occuring. I can never really imagine it myself. Those two reasons are why I am for traditional marriage.

Those aren't, well, valid though. They're your biases, yes, but they're not logically sound opinions.

Umm because you don't have any good reason for why homosexuality or anything that isnt heteronormative is immoral. Once you put that out there, you are spreading hateful language. I don't really see why anyone would oppose it anyway, and the only reasons I've heard opposing it are ones like yours, which say that gays are immoral and going to hell.

You must be a angry. I WAS MAKING A POINT. JEEZ. My point is that you should assume people who don't support gay marriage are homophobes. I am one of them. I love gay people and in fact I would welcome as friends. SERIOUSLY.

Once again, you just want add stuff to my mouth that I NEVER SAID. If you want to falsely accuse me of being a homophobe. FINE. I don't care. You can go ahead and make fun of people who embrace gays and don't support gay marriage all you want but it won't do ****. It will comeback all to nothing.

I feel warm inside because I've been noticed!!

Can I ask now if you believe that "tradition", which you are using to justify your objection - is MORE important than right to marry (for homosexuals)?

Because this seems to be an OPPRESSIVE and INTRUSIVE tradition which seems to dictate how others live their lives - much like the tradition of slavery?

This seems to me an ANACHRONISTIC tradition, which ought to be less important than people's right to love each other regardless of gender, which you say doesn't particularly bother you, since you AREN'T a homophobe as you've pointed out?

I feel sorry for G.I Joe then. Just imagine it, the enemy in front of him and his fellow gay G.I coming up from behind! Who said sound tactics were overrated.

Not angry at all. I'm just toying with a troll, it needs feeding from time to time.

You are a bigot. You have a prejudice, let's examine that

prej·u·dice   [prej-uh-dis] verb, -diced, -dic·ing.
noun

-an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.


-unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

So you want to say you love gays but you don't want them to marry because it's against YOUR beliefs. You can't come up with any good reason why being homosexual is wrong, and usually, where I come from or anywhere that can have a reasonable thought, you are a bigot.

Yay, I don't buy that. You are a angry person. I feel bad for you.

Once again, attacking me is not a solution. You are not helping yourself. If you call me a bigot then go ahead but all your name calling will comeback and bit you BRUTALLY.

Gay marriage should be allowed. There is nothing wrong with homosexuality.

If you are religiously opposed to it, just remember that Jesus ( a really cool guy ) would NEVER EVER EVER have advocated homophobia that the church has, in fact jesus would more than likely completely disregard most of what the church has to say. you think " God " would have put so many homosexuals on this earth if he thought they were evil?



Do the people against gay relationships have a problem with people being in love?


I had a friend once who was homophobic, lovely guy all the same, but me and a group of lads confronted him one drunken night ( he is a bad drunk ) and he nearly punched me I think as I tried to reason with him ( there was a gay couple kissing close by and he was feaking out ). I asked him if he had a problem with people being in love.

Most of these predjudices come from what our parents teach us. For instance, I know British people brought up to hate Irish people and vice versa, once you learn to grow out of these limiting states of ignorance, the world is yours.

Peace out.

This bit here, Paloma, is fantastic! You've been great in this thread!
:thumb:


Incidentally, if anyone feels so inclined to argue this unwholesome case, my reasons as to why no Bible believing person should are here.

Insulting people for different opinions leads to nowhere.

It's not so much your opinion but your belief that it should enforced, even if you are against gay marriage do you not believe it should be peoples right to be "wrong" (as you put it). Given the chance would you vote against it or would you not bother?

Thanks for your concern.

Neither does spouting out contradictory bollocks.

You can attack gays though and call them "wrong" even though it's quite natural, yet I'm attacking you? Do you know we have gay people here even on musicbanter?? Maybe they feel attacked by your unfounded ideas about how they are immoral. You still aren't answering me though, do you need me to make it clearer?


WHAT THE FUCK IS MORALLY WRONG ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

whew, that oughta do it.

Hahaha, I said that I am not for GAY MARRIAGE. I already said in Minnesota, they are trying to legalize it. If they do, fine. I won't do anything to REPEAL IT. GET THE POINT.

It is that you love the SAME SEX. You should not love the same sex. You should love the opposite sex. But as I said, if someone is gay then I will not force them to change. They can be what they want even if I don't agree with it personally. DOES THAT EXPLAIN YOUR QUESTION?

What is wrong about that? Why do you get to dictate what's wrong and what's right? You say it's natural, but why the **** do you get to say anything about it? I will reiterate, something between two consenting adults (or four-50 if they're into that thing) is NOT MORALLY WRONG. They're not hurting anybody, except your poor lily white sensibilities.

Fine, you can stick to your view while I stick to mine.

So you concede you're a bigot then?

Ehhhhhh nope. What is morally wrong is hating another human being for being in love. Why is it that nearly every species on the planet has homosexual tendancies like humanity. Is nature morally wrong as well?

Franco, for me to even make the factual statement " They can't help the way they are born " is insulting enough as it is. People are born the way they are born, it is simple as that. You were not born with this hateful opinion, it was taught to you. please try to understand that.




Calling him names isn't going to change his opinion, life experiences will.

And thanks for saying that - I can say that I know AT LEAST ONE gay person who has decided against making a personal contribution to this thread because they felt too intimidated against the response they would get.


Can I just add that reasons for this are either religious (why those makes no sense I've already explained) or "gut feeling", which really aren't even remotely acceptable grounds to impose your will upon another person.

If you give us a reason why you think there's a clear cut, moral reason why being gay is wrong, then that's fine.

But I have yet to see one of those, and neither have I been convinced in any way by your arguments: no offense, but I've seen a lot of "this is WRONG", but very little explanation as to why exactly there are plausible moral objections to homosexuality.

NO. I am not for gay marriage. But I support Gays getting health benefits, being able to serve army openly and civil union.

So why shouldn't they be able to get married?