The Negative Effects of Porn (May be NSFW)

Guybrush · 07-09-2013, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

It's definitely not only women that are submissive though so the whole men being larger and stronger thing doesn't fly because it doesn't explain the large amount of submissive guys out there.

You mean men being physically larger and stronger on average doesn't explain the minority of men who are submissive or the minority of men in porn who act submissive.

No, it doesn't.

djchameleon · 07-09-2013, 02:02 AM

I don't feel like there is a minority of men who are submissive in porn though maybe it's mostly because of what I encounter or what I tend to gravitate towards. There just seems to be a whole lot of it lately, more than usually.

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 07-09-2013, 02:08 AM

i think men are way more dominant in porn and in real life too. i wonder if it is some kind of biological thing because men are a more dominant sex. I suspect that a larger amount of girls like to be roughed up than the number of guys who like a dominant woman. for me personally it just feels natural to be in control and i like the slapping and especially choking and i havent been with someone who didnt like it especially as a spur of the moment thing. i find a lot of people say they like or dont like certain things but in the heat of the moment they do.

Newkie · 07-09-2013, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I think a preference for being treated that way could originate from a number of places. There's our biology and the fact men are generally larger and stronger which must have had an influence. There could be underlying emotional/psychological things from the past which makes someone sexually submissive. Then there's culture, for example cultures in which men have controlled women and sex/porn culture itself. Porn caters more to the fantasies of men than it does women at the moment. That means the industry, and the sex culture it promotes, is one that caters more to men than women. Girls today may, from watching porn, learn that getting slapped and choked by men is sexy. If porn was different, perhaps they wouldn't.

I see your point but like I said, the whole 50 shades of grey erm..."phenomena" in my opinion at least, tends to show that a lot of women will gravitate towards this aspect, often very unlikely individuals and some of whom I would take a stab at have never watched porn-certainly not the majority of today's more casually brutal stuff. *Cough* Pensioners *cough*

I've no doubt a lot of women are influence to some degree by what they consider they must do, but equally I do think a lot of them seek it out naturally. That always surprised me because while I watched a fair amount of porn before having sex I still thought that sex would be nothing like that and I never felt "influence" to off the bat start choking someone. Maybe women are more easily influenced by it for some reason?

Really not sure.

Guybrush · 07-09-2013, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newkie

I see your point but like I said, the whole 50 shades of grey erm..."phenomena" in my opinion at least, tends to show that a lot of women will gravitate towards this aspect, often very unlikely individuals and some of whom I would take a stab at have never watched porn-certainly not the majority of today's more casually brutal stuff. *Cough* Pensioners *cough*

I've no doubt a lot of women are influence to some degree by what they consider they must do, but equally I do think a lot of them seek it out naturally. That always surprised me because while I watched a fair amount of porn before having sex I still thought that sex would be nothing like that and I never felt "influence" to off the bat start choking someone. Maybe women are more easily influenced by it for some reason?

Really not sure.

50 Shades of Grey is, of course, a product of the same culture that creates our porn. We all are. You write that you think a want to be dominated physically is natural to women, but the women you describe who act like this are women of our culture, the same culture in which our porn and litterature is created. It's like trying to describe the outside appearance of a house when you've only ever seen the inside.

I've also only seen the inside and I don't doubt that there may well be a natural inclination for women to be submissive to men, but I wouldn't base that off things like 50 shades of grey. If you want to comment on what's natural, you should try and set your perspective outside of our culture and see what makes sense then. If you want to comment on human nature, you should imagine a time when our culture did not exist and try to imagine how people would behave then.

From that point of view, you could say that women are likely naturally attracted to strong men with genes that can take care of themselves and a dominating physique and attitude may be a good indicator of that.

Newkie · 07-09-2013, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

50 Shades of Grey is, of course, a product of the same culture that creates our porn. We all are. You write that you think a want to be dominated physically is natural to women, but the women you describe who act like this are women of our culture, the same culture in which our porn and litterature is created. It's like trying to describe the outside appearance of a house when you've only ever seen the inside.

It is a product of our culture true, but having started as amateur fan fiction is it relatable to the porn industry? Perhaps it is informed to an extent but it was not started for commercial reasons, it was started for personal enjoyment (I think?) To be honest I have no clue as to how much the author had already written or known before she made it a novel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I've also only seen the inside and I don't doubt that there may well be a natural inclination for women to be submissive to men, but I wouldn't base that off things like 50 shades of grey. If you want to comment on what's natural, you should try and set your perspective outside of our culture and see what makes sense then. If you want to comment on human nature, you should imagine a time when our culture did not exist and try to imagine how people would behave then.

I admit it's a very basic analogy but it is based on my personal experiences and my interpretation of our society as a whole, although I suppose maybe it isn't my interpretation and it's simply how or what I have been conditioned to believe.

The problem with the last part is that, if you're speaking historically surely most cultures before ours in Europe are male dominated or misogynistic as well? I mean weren't all women complete nymphos according to Herodotus and Thucydides and co.? Jane Austin fawns of the gentlemen but the female characters are always seemingly subservient, but then she had to conform to most of society's expectations just to get anything published. Maybe common sex positions were drawn in caves or female sex journals from any period may contain something but I have no ideas where I'd find either of those...ahem..

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

From that point of view, you could say that women are likely naturally attracted to strong men with genes that can take care of themselves and a dominating physique and attitude may be a good indicator of that.

Yup, that's what I'd go for.

Anyway this has probably gone into more detail than I intended..I'm not trying to pigeon hole women at all and I have no feelings either way on whether they dig said treatment is right or wrong. Perhaps it is all due to the influence of society although personally I would hope that a persons inner feelings/desires would make themselves known, whether they are "in line" with our culture or not, despite the fact they may already be influenced by it. But if everyone around is equally informed by our sex culture I guess it's a bit pointless.

As I won't be time travelling for fanny any time soon I suppose the origins really don't matter.

Guybrush · 07-09-2013, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newkie

The problem with the last part is that, if you're speaking historically surely most cultures before ours in Europe are male dominated or misogynistic as well? I mean weren't all women complete nymphos according to Herodotus and Thucydides and co.? Jane Austin fawns of the gentlemen but the female characters are always seemingly subservient, but then she had to conform to most of society's expectations just to get anything published. Maybe common sex positions were drawn in caves or female sex journals from any period may contain something but I have no ideas where I'd find either of those...ahem..

I don't think you understand me. Let's say you observe a behaviour. Keeping it simple, let's say that behaviour could be cultural or it could be natural. If it is cultural, then the behaviour would disappear in the absence of cultural influence. If it was natural, it would persist.

When I write that you should imagine a time without culture in order to better reflect upon whether a behaviour is natural or not, I don't mean that you should imagine Jane Eyre or ancient Greece because those times are obviously culturally influenced as well. Try instead to imagine the pre-historic humans. Surely they had culture as well, but not as intricate as what we have today and their culture would probably be more in tune with what is considered natural for humans. They would not be bombarded with porn and books like 50 Shades of Grey. Would the women of those times think it was sexy to get slapped and choked by their partner while having sex? Would they like to be physically dominated?

Newkie · 07-09-2013, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I don't think you understand me. Let's say you observe a behaviour. Keeping it simple, let's say that behaviour could be cultural or it could be natural. If it is cultural, then the behaviour would disappear in the absence of cultural influence. If it was natural, it would persist.

When I write that you should imagine a time without culture in order to better reflect upon whether a behaviour is natural or not, I don't mean that you should imagine Jane Eyre or ancient Greece because those times are obviously culturally influenced as well. Try instead to imagine the pre-historic humans. Surely they had culture as well, but not as intricate as what we have today. They would not be bombarded with porn and books like 50 Shades of Grey. Would the women of those times think it was sexy to get slapped and choked by their partner while having sex? Would they like to be physically dominated?

Ahh gotcha, I thought you meant removed from our culture as opposed to all culture.

I guess the answer you're looking for is no? But then would the concept of "sexy" have existed before "culture"? Would it have even mattered, to either party? Presumably at a time when survival was the goal, procreation would have been based on availability and suitability (healthy? Looks playing a part I suppose?) rather than sexual prowess.

Slapping and choking wouldn't be natural, but sexual domination/coercion likely would. Would the women have enjoyed it emotionally or psychologically? I guess they didn't have a choice so I couldn't really say. More that they accepted it as natural just as the men acted on natural instinct. Although this is entirely opinion as I know **** all about primitive man.

Guybrush · 07-09-2013, 05:00 AM

I think that assuming that people "lived" only for survival is jumping to conclusions. If you look at a tribe of indians living in the jungle, they live off the land like our ancestors did, but that doesn't have to mean that every day is a fight for survival. Living off the land doesn't have to mean you don't have an excess amount of resources and time to enjoy it.

Sexual desire and attraction is natural so pre-historic women would be able to judge something on the lines of "this guy is more desirable than this guy". If natural desire says that dominating males are more attractive than more considerate/submissive males, then that could very well be the biological foundations for some of the porn culture we have today.

In other words, I'm not saying I disagree with your conclusion, I'm only disagreeing on how you initially reached it.

Newkie · 07-09-2013, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I think that assuming that people "lived" only for survival is jumping to conclusions. If you look at a tribe of indians living in the jungle, they live off the land like our ancestors did, but that doesn't have to mean that every day is a fight for survival. Living off the land doesn't have to mean you don't have an excess amount of resources and time to enjoy it.

I guess that is true, I was thinking more eurocentric, you know, ice ages and spending all day battling mammoths before returning to camp for some lovin'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

In other words, I'm not saying I disagree with your conclusion, I'm only disagreeing on how you initially reached it.

Woo hoo

. To be fair, I didn't really reach it based on 50 shades of grey, maybe it was a poor example, but it was something I plucked out because I felt it was something that appealed to people who had not witnessed "degrading" porn but showed their interest in sexual subservience. My initial point was that a lot of women just seem naturally into it and if they do indeed find it attractive it's hard to label it as misogynistic. Unless they find misogyny attractive...

07-09-2013, 05:00 AM	#399 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I think that assuming that people "lived" only for survival is jumping to conclusions. If you look at a tribe of indians living in the jungle, they live off the land like our ancestors did, but that doesn't have to mean that every day is a fight for survival. Living off the land doesn't have to mean you don't have an excess amount of resources and time to enjoy it. Sexual desire and attraction is natural so pre-historic women would be able to judge something on the lines of "this guy is more desirable than this guy". If natural desire says that dominating males are more attractive than more considerate/submissive males, then that could very well be the biological foundations for some of the porn culture we have today. In other words, I'm not saying I disagree with your conclusion, I'm only disagreeing on how you initially reached it. __________________ Something Completely Different

07-09-2013, 02:08 AM	#393 (permalink)
~~butthead aka 216~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: freely swimmin thru the waters of glory much like a majestic bald eagle soars thru the skies Posts: 1,463	i think men are way more dominant in porn and in real life too. i wonder if it is some kind of biological thing because men are a more dominant sex. I suspect that a larger amount of girls like to be roughed up than the number of guys who like a dominant woman. for me personally it just feels natural to be in control and i like the slapping and especially choking and i havent been with someone who didnt like it especially as a spur of the moment thing. i find a lot of people say they like or dont like certain things but in the heat of the moment they do.