Quick thought on eternity

Guybrush · 08-21-2012, 07:59 AM

Infinity doesn't mean everything imaginable has to happen. I think the traditional thought is that everything possible should happen, but even that is debatable

What if the universe dies and is just spread thinner and thinner for eternity, a cold black darkness which supported life for a short while, but where nothing much happened for the rest of eternity?

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 08-21-2012, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Infinity doesn't mean everything imaginable has to happen. I think the traditional thought is that everything possible should happen, but even that is debatable

What if the universe dies and is just spread thinner and thinner for eternity, a cold black darkness which supported life for a short while, but where nothing much happened for the rest of eternity?

Why wouldn't that have happened already, given there was an infinite amount of time or some time-like structure before this current phase in existence?

Guybrush · 08-21-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

Why wouldn't that have happened already, given there was an infinite amount of time or some time-like structure before this current phase in existence?

Perhaps matter and energy in an infinite universe does not behave in such a cyclical way with repeating seasons. Who knows?

duga · 08-22-2012, 12:59 PM

I find it fascinating that until proven otherwise, humans assume everything is flat and linear. We thought the Earth was flat, and considering the reaction many of the early round-Earth proponents got (like being executed) we really do have a hard time wrapping our heads around something that isn't in a straight line. Space is vast, but I feel there is a good possibility that it isn't just some infinite sprawl. A few things are currently accepted as possibilities...we will expand and eventually contract resulting in another big bang (essentially starting things over), we will expand forever, resulting in increased disorder, or perhaps we will keep expanding and everything will "come around" and converge again to create the big bang. Maybe that's all a bunch of crap, but here's how I think of it: matter in the universe had to come from somewhere. Let's go with the big bang theory. Everything got packed together in such a dense and tiny space that it exploded and created the universe. Where did all those molecules come from in the first place? Another big bang? I think that's the most likely situation.

**Janszoon** · 08-22-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

I find it fascinating that until proven otherwise, humans assume everything is flat and linear. We thought the Earth was flat, and considering the reaction many of the early round-Earth proponents got (like being executed) we really do have a hard time wrapping our heads around something that isn't in a straight line. Space is vast, but I feel there is a good possibility that it isn't just some infinite sprawl. A few things are currently accepted as possibilities...we will expand and eventually contract resulting in another big bang (essentially starting things over), we will expand forever, resulting in increased disorder, or perhaps we will keep expanding and everything will "come around" and converge again to create the big bang. Maybe that's all a bunch of crap, but here's how I think of it: matter in the universe had to come from somewhere. Let's go with the big bang theory. Everything got packed together in such a dense and tiny space that it exploded and created the universe. Where did all those molecules come from in the first place? Another big bang? I think that's the most likely situation.

I thought the theory was that there were no molecules or atoms or even subatomic particles, just a singularity. It wasn't until after the bang that those things started to take shape.

duga · 08-22-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I thought the theory was that there were no molecules or atoms or even subatomic particles, just a singularity. It wasn't until after the bang that those things started to take shape.

Ok, let's just call them...universe-ish thingies. They may not have been the elementary particles we are used to, but they weren't a singularity until they packed so tightly together that they were basically just one hyper-dense ball of energy waiting to blow up.

Freebase Dali · 08-23-2012, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

[edited out for brevity]...but here's how I think of it: matter in the universe had to come from somewhere. Let's go with the big bang theory. Everything got packed together in such a dense and tiny space that it exploded and created the universe. Where did all those molecules come from in the first place? Another big bang? I think that's the most likely situation.

I've often thought about the logical assumption that "something cannot come from nothing", and in the context of what you said about humans thinking in linear terms, I can't help but wonder if that assumption isn't misguided in some sense.
Let me explain...
We think of as a state of "nothingness" as a state where no physical property exists. That may be more than an intuitive assumption, based on our own definition of the concept, but the concept itself relies on a logical assumption that nothingness itself is a default state in the beginning of a linear progression into "something". Because our logic is rooted in linearity in many ways, it's hard to not assume that first there was nothing, and then there was something.

But, what if that thinking is incorrect? What if there is no natural state of nothingness wherein a state of physical property has somehow occupied? What if the natural state of existence is, by default, a physical property which contains and allows for the potential of change to occur? What if there is no such thing as nothing?

To me, that would mean that at the very basic, fundamental level of "existence" there could be some property outside of the universe that doesn't simply accommodate the presence of physical properties as a vessel, but is, in essence, the very fabric by which those properties originate.
And when I say "change", I refer to a process, perhaps continuous in its state, whereby things like the Big Bang occur simply due to the nature of the way this fundamental state behaves.

Simply put, would it be unreasonable to suggest that something never came from nothing, because our universe is just born of a system that has properties and naturally occurs, and matter is just simply an eventuality?

I know it seems like a lazy assumption by scientific standards, and hardly quantifiable, but as a mere thought experiment where the results are produced from imagination (Dangerously close to religion, I know), would I be assuming the earth is flat, or round (in a manner of speaking)?

~~[MERIT]~~ · 08-22-2012, 03:55 PM

There's also theories that the big bang was the result of a white hole (the other end of a black hole from another universe). I guess everything the black holes consume has to go somewhere when they disappear.

FETCHER. · 08-22-2012, 04:12 PM

Blackholes blow my mind. I mean wtf.

Neapolitan · 08-22-2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FETCHING.

Blackholes blow my mind. I mean wtf.

It's when gravity of a Neutron star is greater than the Strong Force that keep the neutrons apart, and the Neutron star collapses into itself to a single point.

08-21-2012, 07:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	Infinity doesn't mean everything imaginable has to happen. I think the traditional thought is that everything possible should happen, but even that is debatable What if the universe dies and is just spread thinner and thinner for eternity, a cold black darkness which supported life for a short while, but where nothing much happened for the rest of eternity? __________________ Something Completely Different

08-22-2012, 12:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	I find it fascinating that until proven otherwise, humans assume everything is flat and linear. We thought the Earth was flat, and considering the reaction many of the early round-Earth proponents got (like being executed) we really do have a hard time wrapping our heads around something that isn't in a straight line. Space is vast, but I feel there is a good possibility that it isn't just some infinite sprawl. A few things are currently accepted as possibilities...we will expand and eventually contract resulting in another big bang (essentially starting things over), we will expand forever, resulting in increased disorder, or perhaps we will keep expanding and everything will "come around" and converge again to create the big bang. Maybe that's all a bunch of crap, but here's how I think of it: matter in the universe had to come from somewhere. Let's go with the big bang theory. Everything got packed together in such a dense and tiny space that it exploded and created the universe. Where did all those molecules come from in the first place? Another big bang? I think that's the most likely situation. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

08-22-2012, 03:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
~~[MERIT]~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 4,823	There's also theories that the big bang was the result of a white hole (the other end of a black hole from another universe). I guess everything the black holes consume has to go somewhere when they disappear.