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-   -   Venezuela implements new Labour Law as a Mother's Day Gift (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/69735-venezuela-implements-new-labour-law-mothers-day-gift.html)

Sansa Stark 05-21-2013 11:24 AM

Venezuela implements new Labour Law as a Mother's Day Gift
 
Quote:

Here is some news that the conservative critics of Venezuela's leftist government will not publicize. The Chavistas announced that a new labour law, part of which will grant recognition to non-salaried work traditionally done by women, will come into effect this week. Full-time mothers will now be able to collect a pension.
While there are a number of criticisms to be made of the Venezuelan government, the genius of the Bolivarian process is that it combines numerous forms of struggle against inequality. The most obvious lies in its commitment to economic redistribution, and measured by the Gini co-efficient, Venezuela has the lowest rate of inequality in Latin America. An equally significant form of struggle against inequality, however, lies in its pursuit of gender equity.
One of the major theoretical criticisms of the economic redistribution model in more general terms, often advanced by post-modern and post-developmental theorists, has been from the vantage point of questions of identity. Theorists like the anthropologist Arturo Escobar have noted that economic growth does not necessarily transform status relations such as those oriented around gender, race, ethnicity, or sexuality; therefore some have contended that attempts at social change should place primacy, or at least equal emphasis, on the politics of difference. The question of difference: how can everyone in society be able to intervene with equal capacity when there is such significant variation in the recognition that we allot to diverse identities in society? Critics of traditional development have argued that the emphasis on economic redistribution, by either advocates of the market or the state, has ignored the crucial role that identity and diversity play in society. Economic re-allocation does not end the identity hierarchies that place women at a lower rung of the status ladder than men throughout Latin America.
The political philosopher Nancy Fraser has contended that advocates of cultural diversity implicitly start with the proposition that our identity is developed in interaction with others. Our self-esteem is constructed in relation to receiving acknowledgement from others and providing recognition to them; if a group is regularly presented with negative images of themselves, their self-esteem suffers. Non-recognition produces psychological injury: one's self-perception becomes distorted. Therefore in order for groups to achieve full recognition from others, civil society actors maintain that there is a need to establish a system in which all actors can be full partners in social life. Feminists, both inside and outside the Bolivarian process, have advocated for social policies that encourage equal participation in all social institutions.
The Venezuelan government has made many progressive gains, with the most prominent example being the explicitly anti-sexist 1999 Constitution. This set of principles was the result of co-operation amongst members of the constitutional assembly's Committee on Family and Women, the National Women's Council and women's civil society organizations. The constitutional assembly's committee consulted women from every type of political campaign: legal rights, international agencies, academics, labour unions and small business leaders. The Constitution guaranteed women's right to work, to health services, to social security and pensions. Most innovatively it recognized the monetary value of housework by, in principle, supporting housewives' right to pensions. This week that principle has become a reality. Progressives around the world looking for ways to advance gender rights still have much to learn from Venezuela's continuing social revolution.
Venezuela's new labour law: The best Mother's Day gift | rabble.ca

So amazing and exciting! Why aren't more people talking about this??

Arya Stark 05-21-2013 01:16 PM

This is so great!

anticipation 05-21-2013 01:49 PM

So, essentially this allocates tax dollars paid by workers and business-owners out of their earnings to stay-at-home parents? And this is necessary because people can't form a healthy self-identity without monetary gains? I commend Venezuela for ensuring the safety and security of its workers, but I think including people who choose to stay home and parent as a part of the labor force is kind of absurd.

Sansa Stark 05-21-2013 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation (Post 1322042)
So, essentially this allocates tax dollars paid by workers and business-owners out of their earnings to stay-at-home parents? And this is necessary because people can't form a healthy self-identity without monetary gains? I commend Venezuela for ensuring the safety and security of its workers, but I think including people who choose to stay home and parent as a part of the labor force is kind of absurd.

You're a dude, I wouldn't expect you to understand and empathise ;)

While the law has its problems it should be recognised as being a big step forward for women's lib.

FRED HALE SR. 05-21-2013 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation (Post 1322042)
So, essentially this allocates tax dollars paid by workers and business-owners out of their earnings to stay-at-home parents? And this is necessary because people can't form a healthy self-identity without monetary gains? I commend Venezuela for ensuring the safety and security of its workers, but I think including people who choose to stay home and parent as a part of the labor force is kind of absurd.

I'm glad you said it. I was thinking that was also a roundabout way of creating a problem for themselves at a later date.

Sansa Stark 05-21-2013 01:55 PM

But still, it's a big step in general.

Not saying that it solves every problem but it should be recognised all the same since no one here or even in the US seems to be talking about it, and I think personally it should be talked about.

FRED HALE SR. 05-21-2013 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione (Post 1322048)
But still, it's a big step in general.

Not saying that it solves every problem but it should be recognised all the same since no one here or even in the US seems to be talking about it, and I think personally it should be talked about.


I'd say especially for Venezuela its a giant step forward. They're Cubas second cousin afterall.

anticipation 05-21-2013 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione (Post 1322044)
You're a dude, I wouldn't expect you to understand and empathise ;)

While the law has its problems it should be recognised as being a big step forward for women's lib.

Reverse sexism aside, it has nothing to do with being a woman or a man. Venezuela is well known for its ongoing food crisis, and a cursory search as already shown that absenteeism has increased exponentially as a result of "protective" labor laws. Where are the laws protecting small business owners and entrepreneurs? Instead of socializing the country in an attempt to keep political power, maybe Hugo should focus on helping those who actually take risks and contribute by providing labor. I know they're a third-world country still grappling with corruption and draconian policies, but this is not a smart way to go about fixing it.

Sansa Stark 05-21-2013 02:08 PM

Agreed.

FRED HALE SR. 05-21-2013 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation (Post 1322069)
Reverse sexism aside, it has nothing to do with being a woman or a man. Venezuela is well known for its ongoing food crisis, and a cursory search as already shown that absenteeism has increased exponentially as a result of "protective" labor laws. Where are the laws protecting small business owners and entrepreneurs? Instead of socializing the country in an attempt to keep political power, maybe Hugo should focus on helping those who actually take risks and contribute by providing labor. I know they're a third-world country still grappling with corruption and draconian policies, but this is not a smart way to go about fixing it.

I agree with everything you said, but let the man rest in peace dude. :)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...46751780,d.cGE

Janszoon 05-21-2013 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation (Post 1322069)
Reverse sexism aside, it has nothing to do with being a woman or a man. Venezuela is well known for its ongoing food crisis, and a cursory search as already shown that absenteeism has increased exponentially as a result of "protective" labor laws. Where are the laws protecting small business owners and entrepreneurs? Instead of socializing the country in an attempt to keep political power, maybe Hugo should focus on helping those who actually take risks and contribute by providing labor. I know they're a third-world country still grappling with corruption and draconian policies, but this is not a smart way to go about fixing it.

I don't think Hugo has been focusing on much since his death a few months ago.

Sansa Stark 05-21-2013 02:11 PM

So the rest of us should just forget about his legacy because he's dead?

FRED HALE SR. 05-21-2013 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione (Post 1322075)
So the rest of us should just forget about his legacy because he's dead?

Of Course. LOL

Sansa Stark 05-21-2013 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR. (Post 1322077)
Of Course. LOL

Hahaha, silly me. What was I thinking.

anticipation 05-21-2013 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1322073)
I don't think Hugo has been focusing on much since his death a few months ago.

Honestly didn't know the bastard had died, his successors however were no doubt groomed to solidify his actions and elaborate on them. Socialism is the new black in South America.

FRED HALE SR. 05-21-2013 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation (Post 1322080)
Honestly didn't know the bastard had died, his successors however were no doubt groomed to solidify his actions and elaborate on them. Socialism is the new black in South America.

I'm sure the gauntlet has been passed also. I hope for their sake they go a different route or it will be a barren wasteland like Cuba in no time.

anticipation 05-21-2013 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR. (Post 1322081)
I'm sure the gauntlet has been passed also. I hope for their sake they go a different route or it will be a barren wasteland like Cuba in no time.

It'd be a shame too, the jungles and rainforests down there are definitely god's country.

Unknown Soldier 05-21-2013 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation (Post 1322080)
Honestly didn't know the bastard had died, his successors however were no doubt groomed to solidify his actions and elaborate on them. Socialism is the new black in South America.

When you have a continent that has spawned so many oppressive right-wing governments over the last several decades, it's odds on that the left will have their moment of glory.

Circe 05-21-2013 02:27 PM

With right wing morons gaining far too much momentum in the developed world it's only fair that left wing morons should get some lovin' in the developing world as well.

Unknown Soldier 05-21-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circe (Post 1322094)
With right wing morons gaining far too much momentum in the developed world it's only fair that left wing morons should get some lovin' in the developing world as well.

It's a question of balance.

Circe 05-21-2013 02:59 PM

Just to clarify, while I am sympathetic to these pink wave leaders that at least currently appear to be genuinely interested in improving the lives of a very poverty-stricken continent I in no way support throwing your country's economy down the toilet for the sake of improving lives as quickly as possible. While I see the heartwarming intent behind these pensions I also see how easily it's going to be abused which is not good in a nation that really doesn't need an underclass right now.

hip hop bunny hop 05-21-2013 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione (Post 1321901)

So amazing and exciting! Why aren't more people talking about this??

Oh fantastic, a notoriously inept Government is further injecting itself into the daily lives of its citizens by monetizing familial relations to gain popularity amongst Feminists in the west. I don't see how this could go wrong.

hip hop bunny hop 05-21-2013 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier (Post 1322087)
When you have a continent that has spawned so many oppressive right-wing governments over the last several decades, it's odds on that the left will have their moment of glory.

Sendero Luminoso & the FARC would've been more than enough to prove the continent with it's fair share of Leftist misery.

TheBig3 05-21-2013 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione (Post 1322075)
So the rest of us should just forget about his legacy because he's dead?

The rest of us? Who are you allowing to remember his legacy in this situation?

Also, he died in March. I don't know if this is part of his legacy.

FRED HALE SR. 05-21-2013 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1322169)
Oh fantastic, a notoriously inept Government is further injecting itself into the daily lives of its citizens by monetizing familial relations to gain popularity amongst Feminists in the west. I don't see how this could go wrong.

That was perfect. :beer:

Arya Stark 05-21-2013 09:12 PM

I think the important thing is that SOMETHING is happening to change the issues, as opposed to the lack of things happening so many other places.

Circe 05-22-2013 01:46 AM

No, I'd disagree there. There's a fairly common misconception that change in a bad situation is always good even when it's simply for the sake of change. Venezuela breaking off bits of its economy sandwich so that Juan and Carla have something to feed their children is all well and good but when that sandwich runs out the family's kind of screwed for the future.

Unknown Soldier 05-22-2013 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1322170)
Sendero Luminoso & the FARC would've been more than enough to prove the continent with it's fair share of Leftist misery.

Yes but these are terrorist organizations and not the legitimate leaders of either Peru or Colombia. So it's not a fair comparison in respect of what is being discussed.

Arya Stark 05-22-2013 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circe (Post 1322416)
No, I'd disagree there. There's a fairly common misconception that change in a bad situation is always good even when it's simply for the sake of change. Venezuela breaking off bits of its economy sandwich so that Juan and Carla have something to feed their children is all well and good but when that sandwich runs out the family's kind of screwed for the future.

Your racism is unappreciated so I'm going ignore your responses for now on.

Circe 05-22-2013 02:53 PM

I don't even... Racism? Where?

14232949 05-22-2013 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1322169)
Oh fantastic, a notoriously inept Government is further injecting itself into the daily lives of its citizens by monetizing familial relations to gain popularity amongst Feminists in the west. I don't see how this could go wrong.

Agreed. Helping bolster your image in the eyes of others whilst failing to foresee the ever increasing strain on an already fragile economy is only going to be detrimental in the long run.
I can see what the country is trying to do here, but the last thing they need is more outgoings from taxation, which will lead to more people staying at home.
Those who stay at home are not paying taxes and therefore are not contributing back to a system that is putting more investment in them.
To support the people who are being paid to stay at home, those who work will be taxed even more.
Higher taxation will impact the lower paid workers most with many being unable to live adequately, forcing them too to stay at home. This puts more people on the tax bill.

Besides if a country is developing, shouldn't it be doing more to encourage more women INTO work. It seems a bit ass backwards to me.

PoorOldPo 05-22-2013 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar (Post 1322786)
Your racism is unappreciated so I'm going ignore your responses for now on.

Ah cumon now, I'd hardly call that racist!

Circe 05-22-2013 03:43 PM

Can someone please explain what could possibly be considered racist in it to me?

Frownland 05-22-2013 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circe (Post 1322838)
Can someone please explain what could possibly be considered racist in it to me?

It's probably because you assumed that people would have standard Hispanic names in Venezuala. I didn't find it racist, though.

FRED HALE SR. 05-22-2013 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1322839)
It's probably because you assumed that people would have standard Hispanic names in Venezuala.

Yeah I can only assume it was the Juan and Carla statement. Pretty mild but people are people.

14232949 05-22-2013 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circe (Post 1322838)
Can someone please explain what could possibly be considered racist in it to me?

you generalised that 'Jaun' and 'Carla' (note use of stereotypical Hispanic names) were probably struggling to feed their families. And the analogy of the sandwich indicated they were poor.
In 2013, this is a bona fide example of racism.

Pretty much just proof that no matter what you say, someone will take offence to it. I wouldn't worry about it. I think you just made a fair point, and someone tried to back out of defending their point by branding you racist. Classic internet.

Circe 05-22-2013 03:51 PM

Huh, okay. I could see the racism angle if I'd done something Like call a Chinese man Wing-Ding Ching-Ping but to be best of my knowledge Juan and Carla are fairly common names in Gran Colombia.

14232949 05-22-2013 03:54 PM

Jaun is the 53rd most popular name for a male in Venezuela.
Carla didn't make the top 100 for female names.
Now had you called them Andreina and Jesus, then that would have been more accurate.

Venezuelan names - Top first names in Venezuela - Penpal statistics

Unknown Soldier 05-22-2013 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1322839)
It's probably because you assumed that people would have standard Hispanic names in Venezuala. I didn't find it racist, though.

You'll find that they do and are fairly standard across Latin America, there are a number of exceptions but I'd say there is less variety than in a English speaking country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant (Post 1322842)
you generalised that 'Jaun' and 'Carla' (note use of stereotypical Hispanic names) were probably struggling to feed their families. And the analogy of the sandwich indicated they were poor.
In 2013, this is a bona fide example of racism.

The vast majority of populations in these countries right upto the lower end of the middle classes, struggle with certain essentials. Also that penpal list of names, is only really targeted at the younger end of the population. t

Btw isn't the name meant to be Juan;) or is this some other name?

Hitch 05-22-2013 04:17 PM

In any case, the obvious point already made is that it is a bit of a false economy. At least, for a start, some of that ginormous oil wealth better spent over a weekend than the importation of more arms than what was required for over a decade.


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