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-   -   Off Colour Jokes and Why You're a Plebe for Using them (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/70853-off-colour-jokes-why-youre-plebe-using-them.html)

Sansa Stark 07-23-2013 07:56 AM

Off Colour Jokes and Why You're a Plebe for Using them
 
So let me start off by saying, yes, I'm a feminist. No, I don't hate men (for the most part) and yes, I have a sense of humour.

I actually have the best sense of humour of anyone I know, I rarely take myself seriously, however I don't find humour that relies on kicking people that are already down, because I'm not a plebe lacking in empathy.

Rape jokes are a hot subject nowadays, and speaking as a victim of rape & sexual abuse, they're really not funny to make fun of or use lightly. However, it's said that humour can be a way to deal with pain, and victims of any kind of abuse should not be told how to react/cope with the abuse. It's not our job to make you understand why you're an *******, we do it out of the kindness of our hearts. When I first realised what had happened to me (I knew something, but I couldn't admit it outright), it ate away at me, I felt I should tell someone but at the same time a victim shouldn't be expected to disclose their status, it's socially unacceptable to NOT share your pain when it comes to abuse, and god forbid you actually get caught up in the cycle of it. But anyway, the first person I told was a friend whom I love and trust more than anything else, I couldn't say it, but I insinuated it. She knew what I meant, but saying the r word was too much for me. She couldn't think of anything to say but I told her how hilarious to me it would be if she said "I'm sorry you got raped!" because it was absurd to say such a thing, and doesn't begin to cover the pain of it. But that's the point. She knew that, that's why it's funny to me. Or was.

If you have to rely on jokes that play on the pain and suffering of other people without actually empathising with their problem, how smart and funny can you actually be?

Arya Stark 07-23-2013 08:10 AM

People don't realize the severity and impact of their jokes.

What do you think would help them realize?

Sansa Stark 07-23-2013 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar (Post 1348321)
People don't realize the severity and impact of their jokes.

What do you think would help them realize?

Buying my albums duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No not really I think people don't self criticise enough, so that's something
I think some realise but they're too selfish to care or too desperate to be liked.

Cuthbert 07-23-2013 08:27 AM

I empathise with rape victims and I don't think there's a problem with rape jokes. Or any jokes (provided you choose your audience accordingly). Almost every joke is at someone/something's expense. That's a big part of how jokes work, whether it's Frankie Boyle taking the piss out of Jordan's disabled son, or it's a group of bards from the middle ages writing ditties about the king having a big nose.

The degree to which the butt of the joke suffers is what people tend to take umbrage at. But in doing so, that creates a sort of "scale of offense", whereby there is a point at which something is only just over the line, therefore offensive, and a point at which something is just about within the boundaries of taste, therefore not offensive.

And that's when it becomes problematic. Who should determine where that line is? We've already established that most jokes need a "victim" in order to be funny, so in that regard there will always be someone who takes offense at a joke, because there will always be someone who can relate more to the victim than the joke teller.

Therefore, there are only two fair, realistic ways of defining what is acceptable and what isn't - either everything is fair game, or nothing is. And no-one wants to live in a world where you can't joke about anything. So "everything is acceptable" wins. Rape jokes are fine.

Arya Stark 07-23-2013 08:31 AM

There are jokes that can go too far, I think. If you make a rape joke around someone who has been raped, they may not be able to help being triggered negatively by that joke.

You don't know if someone has been raped or affected by rape, so why would you make the joke?

Some female comedians joke about being female, some black comedians joke about being black, these are jokes at someone's expense but not to the point of triggering them.

Sansa Stark 07-23-2013 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffy Kittens (Post 1348326)
I empathise with rape victims and I don't think there's a problem with rape jokes. Or any jokes (provided you choose your audience accordingly). Almost every joke is at someone/something's expense. That's a big part of how jokes work, whether it's Frankie Boyle taking the piss out of Jordan's disabled son, or it's a group of bards from the middle ages writing ditties about the king having a big nose.



The degree to which the butt of the joke suffers is what people tend to take umbrage at. But in doing so, that creates a sort of "scale of offense", whereby there is a point at which something is only just over the line, therefore offensive, and a point at which something is just about within the boundaries of taste, therefore not offensive.

And that's when it becomes problematic. Who should determine where that line is? We've already established that most jokes need a "victim" in order to be funny, so in that regard there will always be someone who takes offense at a joke, because there will always be someone who can relate more to the victim than the joke teller.

Therefore, there are only two fair, realistic ways of defining what is acceptable and what isn't - either everything is fair game, or nothing is. And no-one wants to live in a world where you can't joke about anything. So "everything is acceptable" wins. Rape jokes are fine.

That doesn't mean you know what it's like to be raped, is the thing, just like I have no idea what it's like to not be white. Rape, racism, sexism, transphobia all problems that affect every social class, every race, every gender, and every sexual orientation (etc). So why is it funny? Truly baffles me. I don't think it's funny, and personally I think people should realise that they're joke is problematic and not act like I committed a horrible crime by not laughing at their joke or acting like I'm an ******* for calling them out on their bull****.

Mind you, I'm not trying to force my morality on other people, but I'm still going to call you a plebe if I see fit. I don't approve of taking away other people's rights to free speech however most people seem to not realise that I also have the right to judge the fuck out of them and not want anything to do with people who make such jokes.

Sansa Stark 07-23-2013 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar (Post 1348328)
There are jokes that can go too far, I think. If you make a rape joke around someone who has been raped, they may not be able to help being triggered negatively by that joke.

You don't know if someone has been raped or affected by rape, so why would you make the joke?


Some female comedians joke about being female, some black comedians joke about being black, these are jokes at someone's expense but not to the point of triggering them.

Exactly and being that statistically 1 in 6 women will be raped/sexually assaulted in their lives, it really puts it in perspective.

Cuthbert 07-23-2013 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione (Post 1348329)
That doesn't mean you know what it's like to be raped, is the thing, just like I have no idea what it's like to not be white. Rape, racism, sexism, transphobia all problems that affect every social class, every race, every gender, and every sexual orientation (etc). So why is it funny? Truly baffles me. I don't think it's funny, and personally I think people should realise that they're joke is problematic and not act like I committed a horrible crime by not laughing at their joke or acting like I'm an ******* for calling them out on their bull****.

You don't have to laugh at the joke, if you don't think it's funny it's fine, if you think I'm a cunt that's fine too. My dad has schizophrenia and I've seen him do some pretty messed up things, now obviously I love my dad to bits and I empathise with him. Still joke about schizophrenia though, but my sense of humour is admittedly pretty dark.

I agree you have the right to pull people up on it, just like they have the right to tell the joke.

Personally I wouldn't tell a rape joke around someone I know who's been raped, because I don't want to upset them. I have the right to, but I wouldn't do it.

Quote:

Mind you, I'm not trying to force my morality on other people, but I'm still going to call you a plebe if I see fit. I don't approve of taking away other people's rights to free speech however most people seem to not realise that I also have the right to judge the fuck out of them and not want anything to do with people who make such jokes.
Agree :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar (Post 1348328)
There are jokes that can go too far, I think.

As long as it's funny, nothing should be out of bounds in comedy.

Quote:

If you make a rape joke around someone who has been raped, they may not be able to help being triggered negatively by that joke.
I agree, which is why I mentioned choosing your audience accordingly. You have the right the make the joke wherever but let's say on public transport for example, the chances are someone on there will take offense, so it'd be pretty stupid to tell a rape joke there. I'd still support the joke teller's right to tell the joke, but I'd also call them a stupid twat for picking that situation to tell it in.

Likewise it'd be crass to go up to a couple who've just lost their child to cancer and tell them a cancer or dead kid joke.

There's a time and place, and if people use common sense about when, where and who the audience for the joke is, then nothing should be out of bounds.

Quote:

You don't know if someone has been raped or affected by rape, so why would you make the joke?
Because I've got the right to. I wouldn't purposely do it to offend, though.

Sansa Stark 07-23-2013 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffy Kittens (Post 1348333)
You don't have to laugh at the joke, if you don't think it's funny it's fine, if you think I'm a cunt that's fine too. My dad has schizophrenia and I've seen him do some pretty messed up things, now obviously I love my dad to bits and I empathise with him. Still joke about schizophrenia though, but my sense of humour is admittedly pretty dark.

Still missing another point, my sense of humour as as dark as it comes, however I still refer to myself as a tranny prostitute, even though I'm a dominatrix and I have passing privilege because I present hyperfeminine, because not acknowledging the privileges that I have in regards to being a sex worker and being queer makes me just as whorephobic and transphobic.

Arya Stark 07-23-2013 08:52 AM

Just because you don't do something on purpose, doesn't mean it isn't offensive. And you can never know who in your audience will be affected by a specific joke.


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