butthead aka 216

i agree that 'small government' is sort of a rallying cry from ppl who dont really understand what it means

as for outrage, that isnt going to come until society is at the point where enough ppl are literally starving. you can claim there is outrage now that the whistleblowers have done their thing but its largely internet outrage. how many ppl rioted or really did anythin when the nsa stuff broke?? ppl just complained because in the large scheme of things in didnt change their situation in life one bit. our government has always been well calculated liars. for the record i believe the jfk conspiracy too

some day once our society keeps goin down this self destructive path, in the likely distant future, a small group of ppl will do somethin extreme. bomb some political buildings or something. their message and reasoning will be distorted and they will be almost universally hated in death because of the collateral damage.

not even sure what im talkin about or where im headed here tbh


i try to put any war related issues into historical context because its easy to forget the centuries of heinous war acts. its much more savage than the current societal climate suggests i think.

Lord Larehip

What worries me about the NSA-leakers thing is not the spying programs themselves which are overblown by internet bloggers but it demonstrates that we are turning into a conspiracy-based society. Virtually everything we learned from the leakers we should have already known. It was truly old news. But people are acting like this is some explosive new info. Why is that? Well, it appears to me that the nature of the way of the info came out is what interests them, not the info itself. A news reporter or network uncovering the US's spying operation some 7 years ago didn't interest people because it wasn't leaked by a govt worker. Somehow it being leaked makes ALL the difference. Ah ha! PROOF! We caught 'em with the pants down! Unless news is released like a conspiracy has been uncovered, people don't care. Our lunatic fringe isn't a fringe anymore. We think in terms of conspiracies now.

Look how many people believe in stupid stuff like chem trails. I know intelligent people who believe this stuff. I know reasonable people who think the Twin Towers were blown up from the inside despite how ridiculous the notion is.

Well, there ARE questions to be asked there, I think. Isn't it odd, for example, that two people up to their eyeballs in the JFK thing were also intimately involved in the UFO craze in the late 40s? Fred Crisman was believed by Jim Garrison to be one of the three hobos. While it's not likely that he was, it was interesting that his name came up. Why? Well, if you look up the Maury Island UFO story from '47, he was the supervisor of the guy on the salvager who saw the UFOs--and Crisman was military pilot in the OSS/CIA!! Look it up. Then there was the deputy director of the CIA, General Charles Cabell, who was fired by Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs fiasco, was also the guy who released the memos to military pilots authorizing the use of deadly force against UFOs back in '47 or '48! Weird that these two guys would be connected by two entirely different events some 20 years apart, isn't it? Then remember that Cabell's brother, Earle, was mayor of Dallas at the time JFK was killed. Strange, eh? Could all be coincidence but is it?

Buddy, if you only knew how easy it is. Let me give a scenario that's so easy, it's amazing it hasn't already happened: You can order anthrax from laboratories or go to Mexico and collect it yourself from cattle. You can bring it back to the US and set up an anthrax factory in your apartment. You can order the equipment off the internet, no questions asked. You can make an anthrax slurry, fill a super-soaker with it and cruise around areas with truck stops and what not looking for pigs, chickens, cows on their way to market. Pull up next to it and just start wetting them down with your slurry and then take off and find another. These animals are sold in huge sale barns and will come in contact with thousands of other animals spreading the disease. By the time they show symptoms, a lot of these animals will have already been sold and butchered and that meat on the shelves in stores. Thousands, hundreds of thousands of people could be infected before anyone figured it out.

I only wish you didn't what you were talking about. It's probably going to happen.

I think America is hurtling towards another civil war. The Reds against the Blues. The hatreds are out of hand.

butthead aka 216

i responded in bold

Lord Larehip

My point is, we already knew the govt was sifting through phone calls and emails since 2006. No one cared then. NOW it's this HUGE deal. Why? Yet people seem unaware that the govt has limits on what it can collect about you and yet business has NO SUCH LIMITS. Hence, internet companies know far more about you than the govt does and, worse, can openly share that info with ANYBODY.

A few weeks back, I typed my name and city into my browser just to see what would come up. Here's what came up: One website called "salespider.com" said, "[My correct name] is a person who lives at [my correct and current address]." That was the browser entry, you didn't even have to click on it to get that info.

I then typed that address into my browser and a website--may have been Zillow--told people what it cost, what I still owe on it, how long I lived there, whether my house was for sale and also gave a 3D streetview of my house. If someone was stalking me, he or she wouldn't have to leave their house to find me.

And this info is there for anybody to look through anytime they want to.

And people are ignoring that but raving about the NSA program which doesn't collect info that detailed and doesn't release what it does collect to anybody.

There was a case not long ago of some stupid kid who posted a vid of himself on youtube kicking a kitten. Within a few days, people got his name, his email address, his home address, his phone number and people started leaving him death threats. He want from laughing about what he did to worrying someone was going to do to him what he did to that kitten. Eventually, the cops arrested him and charged him with animal cruelty, as I recall.

If you think you can hide behind anonymity online, you're stupid. You have no anonymity online. If someone wants to track you down, they will. Whatever you do or wherever you go online, there's a record of it somewhere and someone out there knows exactly how to get it. And we give so much info about ourselves to complete strangers!!! I don't need to know your real name, I don't need to know where you work, I don't need to know what you look like, I don't need to know what street you live on or where you went to school. But I've gotten all of that from people I've never met in person. How many of them are also complaining about the NSA snooping?

I didn't. I got it from a book a guy wrote about Plum Island, a govt germ warfare lab near Long Island that's now shutdown but still guarded. He interviewed govt scientists that used to work there. One of the scenarios they are trying to prevent or arrest quickly if it does happen is the one i gave you. It is one of the worst ones they have because they admit there is pretty much nothing that can be done. They too express surprise that it hasn't already happened and believe it is just a matter of time.

The disturbing thing is, they don't really have to be downtrodden. They just have to believe they are. In my experience, the most dangerous element in the country BY FAR is the angry white male contingent. I run into these white guys who honestly believe they are the most discriminated against in the country. And yet these guys have houses, cars, families, good jobs, cabins up north, an arsenal of guns and ammo. flat screen HDTVs--what the hell are they complaining about??? How much more do they think they are entitled to and who do they think is keeping it from them?? Well...they think non-white people and blacks in particular have it all. No joke. That's why they HATE Obama with such passion. They may not admit it up front but anybody with a brain knows it's true. That's why they own so many guns. Not against the govt really (although it's easier to convince themselves it is when that govt is headed by a black man) but against the savage non-white hordes they are convinced will riot one day and turn society into Mad Max when, in fact, THEY are bringing it about through their delusional paranoia. Oklahoma City was one example of the AWM syndrome lashing out. I don't think that's the last of it. The next one will be worse.